Im Stuck! UNI OR CCNP/CCIE? Any Advice

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I think the question that can solve this is can you afford to go to university?

I went to Leeds my plan was to do my HND then do the top up to degree unfortunately I couldn't afford it. If I had know what I know now (basic the expense side of it) I would have studied for certs whilst working hopefully full time.

I left university with around 10k of debt which was the average at the time, apparently this has gone up.

 

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Yes it is indeed. But never the less they are living in the real world. Not every student works in a bar either. Or at all works.

People also seem to underestimate the amount and stanard of work required by the time you get to your final year at university.

Good on you man!!! I agree totally.

 

That is a bit of a bold statement . . . I had a place at Durham to study A computer sciences degree (with the UCAS letter to prove it), but got offered full time employment and chose the latter instead. I'm just one of these that doesn't agree with uni full stop, anything for the old school, redbrick, traditional subjects are the only reason to go, the majority are pointless wastes, I'm young so was choosing my courses a year and a half ago in preperation for going last september and most the courses at most of the universities were just obscure random subjects with little or no worth, English, maths, sciences, law, medicine, IT related subjects and whatnot or worth something, but if you have the choice to work full time and actually do the job or learn about the subject BEHIND the job, then I think people should rightfully chose work over education, vocational subjects are seriously underfunded in this country and that breeds a generation of people who know nothing of the real world. (this isn't aimed at you at all, so don't think it is please)

 

Wow, this is an interesting dicussion. I'm surprised by the amount of people against going the University route. I have no idea how the Uni system works over there in the UK, but over in Canada well most Bachelor degrees require you to complete several interships to pass the 4 year course (this counts as "real-world" experience).
Friends of mine that have completed their degrees at University have better IT positions.

EDIT: just to make things clear. Uni degree does not guarantee success.

 

It's because in the UK, everyone is given the chance to go to a university pretty much, funded purely by subsidies from the government and loans backed by the government, and that means that degrees have become 10 to the penny, devaluing them, whereas people who obviously can't go to uni or whatnot are left with a severe lack of opportunity, in the states, if you go to university you are still in a pretty exclusive club, finance wise and academically you have in worked hard but in the UK, it's just not the same, I think we in the UK here can all agree than a large portion of people that go to Uni, go not because they always wanted to, but because IE, they feel like it, Want to experience it, or are pressured into it by college advisers, In college we were constantly pressured into going to university often with frankly absurd claims.

it's pretty much divided between those than think it's right and those that don't haha, but debate is good, especially on a subject that effects every child in the UK.

 

Well I guess I'll have learned something today. I can't really comment on the UK's educational system, but if I was to judge using your explanation I'd have to say: man, that sucks.
Kinda explains why the Universities in Montreal are full of Europeans.

 

Like I said in my first post, most IT jobs simply don't require a degree.

However I do reccomend a computer science/maths/physics/engineering degree in general for those interested in programming.

Somebody has to design and build the computers, routers, compilers and operating systems, etc. Few companies offer vocational training in these areas, especially to those with no previous experience. What do you think Microsoft Research Cambridge was set up for ? How would someone get a job tuning a formula one engine or writing a mobile phone OS without a degree ?

Of course you don't need a degree to format a hard drive or run a backup.

Yes the general standard has dropped a LOT, and it does make it harder to differentiate yourself using only your degree to an employer, it does not mean that everyone with a degree didn't earn it though, many of them did and they worked extremely hard to get it.

 

Ironically ours are full of Europeans too haha. It's cheaper abroad as far I am aware given the exchange rates and all that, but in the UK, you get it free at the point of use and heavily discounted, you have to pay a lot back afterwards but not all of it unless your household income is over a certain amount. The incentives here are all for Uni and nothing else, and that's a sad thing that there are no alternatives, some people aren't suited to it and they have nothing.

It's kind of like the MS vs Apple argument haha, no proper winner. but, the ones that go abroad are the ones who would have to pay full price here with no government help (Why pay 30 grand here when you can pay 15 abroad?) All part of pushing the poor into university which I fully agree with, everyone should be able to go regardless of financial status (if you fit the bill academia wise that is)

 

The ironing is delicious. You really ought not set yourself up like that...

On top of that, the bolded statement is pretty absurd. Just because someone gives you truth doesn't mean he or she is simply spouting a "sour grapes" statement. I have a degree, and I can say without doubt or hesitation that most IT jobs do NOT require a degree, particularly entry-level IT jobs.

Is it worthwhile to get a degree? Most certainly, provided you're not getting a degree at the expense of acquiring experience. But it's by no means required. It simply makes you look attractive to SOME employers.

 

CBA to chnge!

I use slang for a reason, cuz i cant be assed. Also U.S. / English spelling is different in many respects.

Still though not everyone can afford to go to uni. Many peeps can't.

 

Having a Degree in the UK is no longer what it used to be, they are 10 a penny. I would say they are in comparison to A levels.

Getting a degree part time whilst working, will look alot more favourably on your CV than a degree full time as it shows alot more dedication, discapline and perservance.

Personally, would I spend 3 - 5 years obtaining a degree, not on your nelly!

 

How are they in comparison to A Levels? What alot of bllx. For one you actually need a degree in most circumstances to teach A-Levels.

University's should enforce degrees with time out in industry. End of the day though they are academic places of learning not I.T. training schools. Trained perhaps to write professional reports in an academic way you could argue. Ability to research more effectively and put together a document.

 

Perhaps my explanation could have been a bit more concise.

Degrees are not looked upon highly by employers anymore, as they are now very common, and thus do not show a mark of disctinction as they used to.

The comparison with A levels was that in years gone by, having an A level was common and a degree was uncommon.

If having a degree was still *special* they would be in demand. The truthful answer is they are not.

Will I be sending my daughter to University, if she wants to yes, however it will be more for the life experience rather than the degree at the end of it.

 

I agree. Far too many people now have 'namby pamby' degrees in Media Studies from some sack of crap college pretending to be a Uni.

 

I FULLY agree with Jiser on what he has said...

I have an BSc in Computer Science and it took me 4 years to achieve. I do see my self as a cut above the rest, compared to the people who dont have a degree and it will ultimtely give me more confidence in an interview.

In a few months, I will have 2 years experience in 1st/2nd line role and will want to move on sooner or later. I do see myself going for an MSc or MBA in the future (5/8 + years) as I want into go into an upper managment role in I.T and cant see myself progessing without an aforementioned degree. Simply, I will race ahead of people in salary in a non-technical role rather than a technical one, as I wish to move out of the technical side of things and in to managment.

I DO NOT SEE MY DEGREE AS A WASTE OF TIME!

FatP

 

FatP, I wish you every success.

I do not have a degree and have already achieved what you want to be your ultimate goal by the time I was 26. Passing many people with degrees and MBA's.

This has enabled me to change my career as I have the financial backing to do so. When I changed my career path I went into IT lasr June as 1st Line support, after 3 months I was 2nd Line Support. The biggest single factor that helps anyone in there career development is attitude, which should be can do.

In regards to management, if you really wish to pursue this, look into doing ITIL and CMS which is a Certificate in Management Studies that will give you the foundation to move forward.

Don't forget though, that nearly all the headaches and issues you will recieve and most of the greatest triumps are from people. But mainly headaches

 

Nice speech.

But to be honest, anyone on an 40 - 60k salary who drops to 17.5 k is a fool.

Regardless of time, effort, family etc, just my humble opinion.

 

A foolish person is the one making such a brash statement.

You will soon realise what is important in life, it's not about how much money you earn, but rather how much money you keep and how you use that to enrich your life. Ultimately giving you more choices and options.

 

Fella - you need to look up 'humble' in a dictionary, because your current understanding of it is pretty far removed from it.