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ICS with Belkin router

Discussion in 'Wireless' started by engels, Mar 7, 2006.

  1. engels

    engels New Member

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    Hi, my ISP only provides USB enabled DSL modems and as such I am unable to use my ethernet only Belkin wireless router. Can anybody advise if it is possible to connect my main PC to the net via the USB modem and then share the net connectivity via ICS and the belkin router connected to my main PC so I can restore my wireless network.

    Is this adviseable as I appreciate only the wireless laptop will be behind the built in router firewall.

    Also can you get a USB to Ethernet converter so I may connect the USB modem to the Router and then solve all my problems.

    All input greatly appreciated......Cheers....Engels
     
  2. Boycie
    Honorary Member

    Boycie Senior Beer Tester

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    Hi and welcome aboard :thumbleft

    If you have two modems running it will cause grief.
    If you need to have a wireless point then i would get a wireless router which will provide at least one ethernet outlet (for your desktop) and wireless access for your laptop.
     
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  3. hbroomhall

    hbroomhall Petabyte Poster Gold Member

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    You could, but it would be an unweildy system and difficult to setup and maintain.

    No - this won't work.

    Solutions: 1) Find an ADSL ethernet modem. They *do* exist, but are fairly rare.
    or 2) replace the Belkin with an ADSL Router/Modem/AP

    Harry.
     
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  4. engels

    engels New Member

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    Sorry if I wasn't clear.....

    I have 1 USB DSL Modem connected to my main pc - I also have 1 ethernet router with no USB ports and no modem capabilities....my question is whether the following setup is achievable

    USB modem -- PC using ICS -- ethernet router -- laptop

    I have recently moved into the country from holland and my last ISP provided ethernet modems - which I still have but cannot get to function in UK

    thanks.....
     
  5. hbroomhall

    hbroomhall Petabyte Poster Gold Member

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    That's exactly what I took you to mean. It's doable, but diffcult.

    You need to change quite a few parameters as the systems aren't quite the same.

    However - the most important bit is this: Is the ethernet modem Annex A or Annex B? It should be in the docs. In the UK we only use Annex A. An Annex B modem that can't be changed is useless here.

    Harry.
     
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  6. engels

    engels New Member

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    Thanks for the input so far ---

    I have a Copper Jet CJ8M0 E-U which seems to translate to being a Copper Jet810 in the manuals and according to the info contained

    http://www.internet-services.nl/documents/downloads/CopperJet_821/Revision_3/Firmware_5.x/Tools/Manual_CopperJet_Monitor_Tool_v1.8.pdf#search='CJT%20810%20annex%20b'

    it is an Annex A modem - does anybody know what setting i need to change to get it to function with tiscali dsl - it would really make my day - although I do know configuring this modem is a pain in the -you know what....

    Thanks again
     
  7. hbroomhall

    hbroomhall Petabyte Poster Gold Member

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    From www.adslguide.org.uk - a great source of info
    Harry.
     
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  8. hbroomhall

    hbroomhall Petabyte Poster Gold Member

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    In addition, you will need to put your username/password into the modem. If you were on PPPoE before then the username/password lives in the modem, not the router.

    Harry.
     
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  9. hbroomhall

    hbroomhall Petabyte Poster Gold Member

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    Hm - I seem to be adding yet more here!

    It would seem that the modem you have is a router as well.

    Rather than having two routers to complicate things I'd get a simple AP to plug into the CopperJet. It will make setting up much simpler.

    Harry.
     
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  10. engels

    engels New Member

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    Thanks Harry - your an asset to the forum..!!!!

    I will try the above and advise how it went over the next couple of days - I have one last question though - when i currently connect to the net if no connection is already present a dialer type window appears on the screen with userid / password combination - therefore do I still need to add userid and password in the modem?

    Thanks again - your help is really appreciated..!!!!
     
  11. hbroomhall

    hbroomhall Petabyte Poster Gold Member

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    What you see is a side-effect of the USB system behaving more like a dial-modem than a proper modem/router.

    When you have added the username and password to the CopperJet you won't be prompted for these again - the connection will truely feel to be 'always-on'.

    Harry.
     
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  12. engels

    engels New Member

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    Harry,

    It is a strange modem, it has the dsl connection input, one USB and one ethernet connetor on the back and was supplied as standard in The Netherlands on the pretense that you can connect to your PC by either USB or Ethernet - - so why they make a 2 port router seems a bit strange to me -

    Again thanks for all your help...!!!! I will report back later.
     
  13. hbroomhall

    hbroomhall Petabyte Poster Gold Member

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    First - it is quite common to see modem/routers these days with both Ethernet and USB. The USB is there usualy for people who don't have an Ethernet port, but it is an inferior system.

    Second - the docs I looked at showed a 4 port hub incorporated - is this not the case with your unit?

    If not you will need a cheap Ethernet hub/switch - but these only cost about £10 these days.

    Or you could use the Belkin - but as I said before that is messy using two routers.

    Harry.
     
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  14. engels

    engels New Member

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    Previously I had the copperjet modem straight out of the box connected to my PC via ethernet and no additional configuration to the modem - when I encorporated the belkin wireless router, i merely took the connection from my pc and placed it in the wan port on the belkin router which has 4 ethernet ports - then connected the router to my PC, configured the router DHCP etc and had my wireless laptop access as well.

    I think the copperjet router capability is disabled as default - I also know I need to download a copperjet application toactually be able to access and configre the modem.

    I am essentially trying to replicate my old environment:

    copperjet -- wireless router -- PC / Laptop

    Cheers......
     
  15. hbroomhall

    hbroomhall Petabyte Poster Gold Member

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    Well - if that worked then you were lucky - usualy it takes a fair bit of setting up. I suspect this will give rise to a double-NAT, but for most things this won't be important.

    That would be very unusual - normal is for the router to be on - but this may be an ISP thing.
    That is just to make things easy for people. You don't need to use this. You can browse to the router and change the settings directly. The application *does* allow you to save the config as a whole set though - which is a bonus.

    Harry.
     
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  16. engels

    engels New Member

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    I think the copperjet purely acts (or used to) in the capacity of a dsl modem. My previous ISP used to assign fixed IP addresses which was always assigned to the belkin router when logged in, also as MAC addresses where used for authentication, I provided the ISP the MAC address of the belkin router - the router then assigned addresses to my PC's via DHCP - - on this basis i don't believe a double NAT was in effect or that the copperjet utilised any of it's router capabilities - but just my assumption due to the above.

    I will check the config and advise.....cheers
     
  17. hbroomhall

    hbroomhall Petabyte Poster Gold Member

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    Aha! In the scenario you describe I think you are right.

    In this country we have never bothered with using the MAC address for auth on ADSL, and the cable companies have now abandoned it as well.
    With Tiscali you normaly get a dynamic IP, and the modem normaly gets its IP and DNS info via PPP.

    So - yes - quite different!

    Harry.
     
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  18. engels

    engels New Member

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    Is the modem assigned the IP address or does it merely act as a bridge (so to speak) and my PC get assigned the IP address?

    If the modem is assigned the IP address and I install my hardware as previously described will I need to config the belkin router as a bridge - or do you think the copperjet modem will continue to act in a pass-through type of mode?

    this is getting really interesting.
     
  19. hbroomhall

    hbroomhall Petabyte Poster Gold Member

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    I have to say that I'm not absolutely certain about working like this. Normaly all installations I've dealt with have had the modem and router in one box and have been configured as such.

    Because of the dynamic IP the router/modem needs to use PPP to get its IP. So the router/modem will have the IP. *Normaly* it will be running NAT and a DHCP server for the downstream machine. In my case at home I have a /28 static allocation, so neither NAT nor DHCP is run.

    If you want to run the copperjet as a 'pure' modem then I don't think it will work in the dynamic IP case, as it will grab the IP. But I'm willing to hear counter-arguments. EDIT: See my next posting for how I was wrong!

    It has been suggested to me that in places in the UK where PPPoE is allowed there are other ways of doing this, but I don't know what.

    Finaly - if I was in your shoes I'd set up the copperjet as a router/modem, add a cheap hub/switch and also add a cheap AP for the Wifi, and mothball the Belkin.

    Or replace both copperjet and the belkin with a combo - they are under £50 these days!

    Harry.
     
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  20. hbroomhall

    hbroomhall Petabyte Poster Gold Member

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    OK - I've been doing some digging.

    The phrase to look for is "PPP half-bridge". This seems to be quite a clever system.

    Basicaly the modem gets the IP via PPP as usual. However it is also running a special version of a DHCP server. When that server gets a request for an IP from the ethernet side it hands out the IP it got from the ISP. The modem then becomes a bridge, and the PC on the other end of the ethernet connection has the IP handed out, and no NAT is involved.

    You can substitute a router (i.e. the Belkin) for the PC and it *should* work. However - there are a number of situations where the timeouts on the DHCP lease can cause problems, but clearly in this case they work together.

    Whew - I've learnt something today! :biggrin

    Harry.
     
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