I hate my new job

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It would appear I’ve made a huge mistake. I moved to a new job this week that was supposed to be a big step up (to 3rd line),have great benefits (company car) and to top it all off it’s only 5 minutes down the road.

I was told that the work and career progression would be great, the company is a huge multinational organisation that turns over billions so I figured there would be some pretty cool technology.

It turns out to be quite the opposite. After being here nearly a week now it’s very apparent that this company does not invest in technology and has no desire to innovate. The place is literally tied together with bits of string, the network runs NT4 with an AD 2K3 rollout that ‘might’ get round to the office I’m in about 6 months time.

The WAN infrastructure management is outsourced to a BT cloud and that won’t change any time soon.

When I logged in I noticed I didn’t have any drive mappings, when I enquired as to what might be wrong I was told that “IT don’t have a server or any server space to store our work”. Similarly when I asked if there was any documentation I could read up on to familiarise myself with the environment I was told there wasn’t any.

The reason for this is the old ‘Your department doesn’t generate revenue for the company so you don’t get any budget’ philosophy… I’ve seen that one before and it’s backward if you ask me. I was also told that we have to apparently fight and campaign very hard to get any resources and if we’re lucky we might get some old 3rd hand kit that would otherwise be decommissioned.

This whole Q&A session I had with my new colleagues was punctuated with much laughter in the tone of “Oh bless, you’re asking all the questions they ask when they start – you’ll get used to it soon enough..”

Now I don’t really intend to get used to this or get at all comfortable here. The car and 5 minutes away thing is great but I’d swap it all for an hour long train journey to the city in the cold and rain every day having to get up at 5:30 at the drop of a hat.

In the situation I’m in should I wait a bit before applying for new roles or am I right to just move now even though I’ve only been here 3 days so far. Staying here will hold back my career and it’s making me depressed just being here.

I’m thinking that the best thing to do is to lay cards on the table and get looking ASAP so I can find something else and that I don’t waste any of this company’s time while they might still have a second choice candidate available. There’s no point in me getting trained up into how this place works if I’m on the next bus outta here either.

Opinions anyone?

 

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Hmmmm

A few things come to mind when reading your Post.

1) Are you are happy in the job, I know you have only just started there, but if your not happy in the job and the pay is crap, why stay?

2) The company must of stated what developments they were making to the dept and what your job role is also did they promise training? If so i would hold them to this, talk to your line manager, if that doesn't work go above their head to the next manager, keep going until someone answers your questions.

3) Why did you apply for the job, what were your main reasons?

4) See if you can get your old job back, before someone fills the position.

5) Start looking for another job, sign on the agencies if you have to, but get out quick!

My Priorities in the IT world are Job satisfaction> Environment>Money.

What are yours?

Goodluck mate

 

Welcome to the world of IT! What you see is common place amongst a lot of companies! You're very lucky that you don't have to get your head around Netware 4 or even Netware 3!
I work for a local authority that is now moving from Netware 4 to AD and NT4 to XP...and we're in 2006? A firm I worked for 3 years ago were using Netware 3, GroupWise 5, and 95/98 workstations - there was no valid business case to upgrade! They are still using that technology.

Companies cannot afford the latest and greatest technologies; those who tie the bits of string happen to be the highest paid people too! If it ain't broke then don't fix it will be the motto I should imagine!

You have the car and no hassle of public transport! Your career will progress fine, I wouldn't get too hung up on it - just go to work and do your time. If not you may go from the frying pan into the fire...happened to a mate of mine too, and he regrets not staying put!

 

Wow - would put it down as experience, find a temp position somewhere from which you can base yourself whilst you find the right job...and not even mention the current one on your CV!!

 

Well said Mate

Drum dude has an interesting point there, alot of firms out there still use windows 98 or are on Office 97.

I work in IT depart for local Hospital and even though they have a budget of £1 Million pounds for equipment, they have no money to employ new staff or train current staff. So the technology sits there on a shelf collecting dust. Because there's not enough staff. They are departments out there which need computers rebuilt because they are still on windows 2000. They should be on the new system with winXP but aren't due to red tape restrictions and department budget.

So maybe you should take a step back from the situation and asses it more clearly.

 

Pete,

What is the new role? Are you in a position where you could make a difference, or just there to make up the numbers.

As D_D said many places in IT are like this (never seen somewhere that they can't store their own data though!), but they get on with it.

Sounds to me like bad management, something that you need to express to your manager, him to his, etc, until things change for the better. Make the bosses realise the business advantages in investment. When I started in my role the whole infrastructure ran on Hubs, the first thing I did was to get a switch and show them the difference.

Its hard, but sometimes perserverence can pay off.

 

Thanks for the replies, in answer to a few questions:

I’m not too sure about training, judging by the lack of budget for equipment I would imagine that it won’t be too forthcoming. If it were to I don’t think they’d send me on a training course until I’ve been here a while and then it would tie me to them for a while after (or pay back the training fee. I’m not too fussed about that because I can self train, I don’t want to be obligated to them in any way).

I’ve told my ex colleagues about it and they’re all screaming “come back come back!” which is nice, my old boss has stated that I’d have to phone him up and talk to him about it as in his mind I am ‘gone’. Not too sure if a step backwards is the way forward either.

I didn’t apply for this job, it was a random call from an agent when I wasn’t even looking, I only took an interest when he told me it was 5 minutes away, had a nice car (it’s a field engineer role), had a lot of server work involved and paid a bit more than where I was.

In the interview and before and after I was sold the job on the fact that it’s a great company to work for, good career progression, challenging work etc etc etc – usual agent sales jargon.

The company did state that they were running NT4 and upgrading to AD but not that they were doing it really really slowly and that there would be no IT budget etc etc. The phrase “not what it said on the tin” springs to mind.

I think I let a lot of the wrong reasons (car, proximity) cloud my judgement when deciding to come here. I feel I was mis-sold on the role, but the fact that the company is a huge multinational multibillion outfit it never struck me that the attitude to technology would be what it is.

I tried suggesting this and that and took the approach of looking at the place with a fresh pair of eyes but the resounding message from the guys already here is “all you’re saying has been said many times before and we’ve given up on all that – don’t worry you’ll soon get used to the way things are”

I’d love to change this place and bring it into this century but I just don’t have the clout and it’s all been said before and fallen on deaf ears I’m told.

As I type this post I just got a call for a junior Cisco engineer role in central London – it’s a bit of a pay cut – no car, long journey but exactly what I’ve been looking for!

Since getting the CCNA last year I’ve had real problems getting a networking role with no commercial experience, 7 ½ years ‘IT’ experience doesn’t qualify me for Cisco roles – but I’m told that this place are looking for someone either a bit experienced but with no qualifications or someone with a networking qualification who can come in and be useful at a junior level and work closely with more senior network engineers.

Lets just say that I couldn’t be more enthusiastic about this one! Fingers crossed..

 

Migrations cannot be rushed, perhaps a public service can get away with it but a private company can stand to lose a lot of money!

It's down to you what you do, but at least you're getting oppurtunities thrown at you! So I do hope that you get the other role! However, public transport will drive you barmy - when I worked at SH-ITNET the train ride nearly put me over the edge...after 4 months I had to get back in the car!

 

Don't tell anyone this, but one thing I've done in the past is to - um - arrange things so that something HAS to be done.

Want to roll out 2003 Server?

See how slowly you can get NT4 to go.
When the boss starts complaining that it takes him too long to get his emails then you'll have him agreeing to anything.

Then you tell him you'll have to upgrade to 2003, then you tell him that the existing server won't be compatible.

Then you ask for a bonus for sorting his emails out - see how much quicker they are?


In all seriousness - sorry you're not enjoying it.
If the company's attitude sucks then it will be hard work to change things.
But if they want to pay you for sitting around doing nothing...

 

The rollout will make its way to us in 6 months I'm told. It's not just that but the whole lack of technological innovation despite the company being more than able to afford it.

I just moved here from a company that is a lot smaller, doesn't turn over nearly as much but is passionate about tecnology - I suppose I'm making some unfair comparisons but I can't stay somewhere where I don't even have a home drive to store my own stuff - let alone any network drives with useful information about the environment.

I even suggested putting together some documentation myself and tried to take initiative but that was just met with laughter..

I think it would be flogging a dead horse if I tried to make any changes.

On a side note - any of you Cisco network admins reading this I just made a post in the Cisco general forum asking about what monitoring software it might be a good idea to start mugging up on if I get any feedback from this junior admin role:

http://www.certforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=14081

 

Well, ultimately it's where your priorities are at. You can look at this as a challenge, or not. An NT4 to 2k3 migration is a great experience, but if you've been doing this stuff for 7.5 years, you may have already done this. I've been in positions where everyone else just laughs -- it's very unmotivating. One things for sure, you can't change poor management.

That said, I think that d_d hit it right on the head -- you're more apt to find this situation than the picture-perfect Dell datacenter pictures. An administrators greatest challenge is often making chicken soup out of chicken %$^#. Some love the thrill of interoperability, and it really serves to strengthen your understanding of different systems. Others don't like to go outside the box, particularly when the box is a mess to begin with, and the owner of the box doesn't give a whip.

Of course, this point is moot if you're looking for a network role. I hope you can stand staring at CL, routing tables and ACL's all day long, but to each his own. If networking is your passion, then go there. Beware, though, of the grass always being greener. You may be in for a surprise when you get there, as well. Good luck!

 

Good luck Pete!

 

I think a lot of companies are like that. I got told the same crap as you in my first job about using the latest gear. What I found is that the directors were too tight to put any money into IT the reality was most of the users had PIII and even some of our critical Systems ran on PIII servers. Most of our software was free and our XP licence was from Ireland which I'm sure is illegal to use in the UK. In all after 2 years I was sick and manged to get another job at a good company that is the opposite and spend a lot of money on IT as they see the importance of it to their success.

As stated already places tend not to invest in IT as it doesn't usually make them money directly so te first to suffer is the users and IT staff. Thats the way it is.

My advice is not to rush into another job. Start looking now but bide your time for the right job to come a long. If you rush into the first job that comes a long you may regret it more than this job.

 

Hi all,

I have not been around a while but thought I would drop by and answer some posts.

This is a very tough call to make, if it were me I think I would sit it out for a while, whilst studying real hard at the same time to move on and progress. That way at least when someone asks you the dreadful question:

"why do you want to leave your current employment.."

You can turn around and say I have studied for the latest and greatest and the company I am with is not very progressive... This way it makes you look like you want to develop etc which in my opinion makes you look pretty good rather than just saying they are running old equipment and the pace is slow... a lot of businesses do have antique bits running around, and it is simply because they work so why should they change?

Overall its down to you the individual but just be more careful and ask a lot more questions at interviews!!

 

Chap. Welcome to the reality of blue chip companies!

I work for (no names) one of the biggest communications companies in the UK and it would shock you the age of some of the equipment we are using. Example

2000 user site with 94 printers running 2 PII 233Mhz load 128Mb RAM balanced NT4 print servers.

NT4 exchange servers (PIII 500) running Exchange 5.5

The fact of matter is that small companies can move quickly and take advantage of new technology and design structures. Big companies are so spread out over many different locations and have so many users and objects that to upgrade is a massive massive project. I think someone else in the thread nailed it by saying "If it ain't broke don't fix it" That's exactly how it is.

They use NT4 some Win98 and now mostly XP with the NT PC's on there own domain along with all the users (directory services) and an AD environment which all the XP boxes are bound to (diff domain) It's messy but the amount you learn about the integration of them both is worth some of the pain.

I know from chatting with other engineers there are many blue chippers that are exactly the same.

I really know how you feel about the training part of it! I was TUPE'd out to a huge IT services firm who promised us engineers stacks of training if we stayed etc etc. They never delivered and always blamed budgets. Good companies do pay for training and at the very least exam fee's like the one I moved too. If they value their staff then they should helpm you out. Another one I used when hit with the budget excuse was to ask to be placed for half a day every fornight with the team you want to move to etc.

Another good thing about big companies that haven't outsourced their IT is that once your in you can network and try and get into other teams when they are recruiting!

I think 3 days is a little hasty to be fair. I could never put myself through going back to a job I'd left for a better job. That would be enough to make you hit rock bottom!!! imagine the smirk on your old bosses face! I'd rather work in Mcdonalds then give him the satisfaction!

 

Thanks for all the replies. I didn’t hear back about the NOC 1st line job and am not actively looking anymore. After just over 2 weeks now I’ve got more of an idea of what I’ll be doing. I’m still not at all happy here or motivated but I’m going to throw all I can at it. I’m going to try my best to try and turn things round, I’m putting together a list of suggestions which is growing every day.

If after a few months I’m fobbed off with budget excuses I’ll have to make a move. Everyone else here has been here at least 10 years or more and they know nothing else and accept it. It’s one thing that the technology is so old and yeah it works but the fact that the IT dept does not have any server space to save our work and will not be given any budget for it is something else.

I’m sitting here with a jumper on because the heating in our part of the building is broken, and they won’t fix it because of the budget thing.. Not only that but our work area is absolutely disgusting, the carpet, walls and general area look like a smoking room with who knows how old coffee stains on the carpets and yellow walls. The other departments aren’t like that, especially not the director’s area..

In all the attitude to technology and the IT dept is quite antiquated and the company being the size that it is I don’t see it changing but – I’ll do my best even if it’s so I can leave with my head held high saying I did everything I could and came to the unfortunate conclusion that this is not the place for me.

I suppose I’ve been quite spoilt in the past working at forward thinking dynamic places who invest in technology and want to innovate. I went to the Xmas party for my last job on the weekend and they all want me to come back but that would be a step backward and I need to move forwards. It’s nice to be asked though

So the plan is – stick it out and make some recommendations. Ironically I left my last place because there was too much documenting paperwork and red tape and here there is none. I thought to hit the ground running here I’d try and bring with me some of the organisational aspects with me as they don’t have any at all.

When that suggestion was met with laughter and the fact that we don’t have server space to keep anything like that I knew I was in the wrong place. I’ll make my recommendations and who knows maybe they’ll take heed but I have a strong inkling I’ll get fobbed off.

For a multibillion organisation it’s a very sad and outdated attitude to take toward non revenue generating employees. Maybe I’m making unfair comparisons with the companies I have worked with before, but if things don’t change I won’t be staying around to get used to it.

 

Good for you mate! Suck it and see.

I actually think you may work at the same place as me! lol

I had to scavenge a year old PC and create a resource server for the desktops teams. It was meant as a local resource server but because every site is in the same position it now serves the UK!

All you can do is try to change the attitudes of your co-workers etc.

Although you left the last job because of the paperwork and red tape you'll probably find from the experience at this new job that the processes are what keeps everything in place.

Maybe it's a blessing in disguse for you to make a name for yourself and drag them out of the dark ages!

Good luck

 

It seems I'm fairly unique in working for a company that will invest in any technology as long as there is a good business case for it.

 

You said the key word there Baba, "a good business case". If you can prove that investment in technologies will bring about business gain then usually the company will make the investment. Remember though that you have to prove that there is a gain to be made.