How would you feel if the UK Gov brought in mandatory certs/quals for the IT Industry

Discussion in 'Polling Station' started by Kitkatninja, Jun 26, 2008.

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Do you think specific/certain certs/quals should be mandatory in the IT Field?

  1. Yes

    32 vote(s)
    58.2%
  2. No

    18 vote(s)
    32.7%
  3. Don't know

    5 vote(s)
    9.1%
  1. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    I think he is pointing out that the issue is not restricted to the certification arena, and quite rightly to if any mandatory system came in the play it would need to eliminate abuse as best it can
     
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  2. tripwire45
    Honorary Member

    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

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    I've heard of "If you build it, they will come" but that also seems to apply to "If you test for it, they will cheat". This is human nature, folks. No one industry or discipline has a claim to it.
     
    Certifications: A+ and Network+
  3. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Nobody ever said it was.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
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  4. GrumbleDook

    GrumbleDook Byte Poster

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    Certs are good and quals are important, but in certain areas of IT it will drive out the enthusiast or those who have 'experience' but has not put it all down on paper. Certs would have to have an element of vocational testing to cater for the wide range of those who had their jobs due to experience rather than completing exams.

    I just think back to Fred Dibnah for how someone with a massive love for his field yet he was not a qualified structural / mechanical engineer, yet the feats he performed in created mine shafts and rebuild steam tenders was amazing.

    A balance is needed.
     
  5. Tomsolomon

    Tomsolomon Bit Poster

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    This subject realy gets my goat. I have been at college for three years now. I also have many years of experience in my line of expertise, and quite frankly, some of the people who I have met at college, who have apparently been in the industry for years, have not got a clue, and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a computer....
    It's realy realy annoying, due to the fact that I am unable to get a job in the IT industry, because I am Bricklayer....:blink
    And what the hell is this Circo training about?
    Giving people a cert just because they know how to get through a scripted two week intensive course with absolutely no practical experience what so ever....
    I say bring in compulsary certification through proper learning courses, get rid of some of the idiots, and give people like me a chance....
     
    Certifications: C&G IT System Support, A+ Certification
  6. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    You will meet people like that throughout your IT career mate, get used to it. :(
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) MS-900 AZ-900 Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Microsoft Certs
  7. Tomsolomon

    Tomsolomon Bit Poster

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    Alrighty then..........:blink lol
     
    Certifications: C&G IT System Support, A+ Certification
  8. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    Just thought I would be honest about it :biggrin
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) MS-900 AZ-900 Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Microsoft Certs
  9. Tomsolomon

    Tomsolomon Bit Poster

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    Dude please you dont know how scarey that sounds.
    I think I might just have me a nightmare tonight.......

    Why cant these people just get jobs as MP's or sumin......:tune

    I'm so glad I'm not at med school.....:ohmy
     
    Certifications: C&G IT System Support, A+ Certification
  10. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    It's not scary at all! Sure, they're a pain to work with... but consider this...

    ...when people like them screw something up, we get to fix their mistakes, and we come out looking like heroes... which gets US the jobs and the raises and the promotions.

    In short... they make us look goooood. 8)
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  11. craigie

    craigie Terabyte Poster

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    Gotta agree with this, we have 2nd Line people here who delete the All Users profile from workstations and wonder why it needs reimaging :blink


    Makes me cringe how some people get to be in the positions they are in just because they have been with a company along time.
     
    Certifications: CCA | CCENT | CCNA | CCNA:S | HP APC | HP ASE | ITILv3 | MCP | MCDST | MCITP: EA | MCTS:Vista | MCTS:Exch '07 | MCSA 2003 | MCSA:M 2003 | MCSA 2008 | MCSE | VCP5-DT | VCP4-DCV | VCP5-DCV | VCAP5-DCA | VCAP5-DCD | VMTSP | VTSP 4 | VTSP 5
  12. dmarsh
    Honorary Member 500 Likes Award

    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

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    This rather assumes your management is clued up enough to be able to differentiate good from bad, as we often debate they are often not, thats one reason we have certs afterall. Hard to look like a hero when your manager stresses 'theres no I in TEAM' and labels your department crap because your coworkers break everything every time you look in the other direction...


    Exactly, there are many more aspects to a career than pure merit, theres time in service, networking etc, if your immediate superiors are not good people you're in trouble.
     
  13. supernova

    supernova Gigabyte Poster

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    This is slowly changing in many countries, they been trying to pass this in the UK for a while. Considering it takes about 5 years min (self employment doesn't count as the required experiance, this for full chartered accountant!) and you have to work under a monitor (accountant or senior member of accounts department) many freelancers and self employed oppose it. You even have to do this to be a member of the ATT as a basic accountant or bookkeeper which is regarded the proper route into accountancy

    Chartered accountants have to be qualified and regulated to carry out investments, tax and auditing

    Last year the Money Laundering Regulations where introduced that meant that both bookkeepers/accountants and their clients had to be registered, monitored under this regulation. bookkeepers/accountants had to register under an accountancy body eg ICB, ATT etc or hmrc

    This has created huge amounts of red tape.
     
    Certifications: Loads
    WIP: Lots
  14. mattstevenson

    mattstevenson Byte Poster

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    I agree. Too many of my customers think that they out-qualify me, because they can install a hooky copy of Windows on their carboot sale PC.

    The IT Profession isn't as respected as it should be. Having mandatory certs at all levels is a good idea to my mind. A+ isn't a huge requirement for an entry level guy. Network+ isn't a huge requirement for an entry network guy who's probably going to be laying cables for a few years. Ultimately the certs increase your knowledge and make you more employable, and having to achieve those certs might help separate some of the useless fools who blag their way through IT.

    Of course, the brain dump sites will have to be more strictly monitored and policed, and brought to justice, otherwise my last comment might be wrong.
     
    Certifications: Triple A+. Network+, CCENT
    WIP: MCP, ICND2, Sec+
  15. Tomsolomon

    Tomsolomon Bit Poster

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    There are standards throughout the IT industry. (What a mess we would be in if there wasn't!)
    Why then would anybody have objections to there being standards in education?
    I applied for a job recently, for a support roll, and the IT manager had a degree...
    In librarainology if there is such a thing.
    He had no idea when I started talking to him about hubs and switches, and when I mentioned setting up a DNS server, the blank look on his face was a picture. Suffice to say, its not a good idea to pee off your interviewer.....:rolleyes:
    He told me not to bother going back to college because a degree doesn't count for anything these days, perhapse I should train to be a librarian.
     
    Certifications: C&G IT System Support, A+ Certification
  16. supernova

    supernova Gigabyte Poster

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    Yeah i know what you mean, I used to know one of the NT support team leaders at Microsoft UK,
    He had a degree in zoology , sometimes its just having a degree that counts and not the subject.

    I also had a friend that had a degree in physics and got a job as a developer at the mobile platforms group at Microsoft Richmond. Physics i can relate to. I think he now works for a company that develops tools for gnu compilers.
     
    Certifications: Loads
    WIP: Lots
  17. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Then that's obviously a company you don't want to work for. That sort of a work environment is a miserable place for someone who does quality work.

    Except for my Army service, I have yet to work for an employer who didn't recognize individual contributions (or failure to contribute) to the mission on a person-by-person basis. If that ever happens, I can find another employer who will.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  18. Kitkatninja
    Highly Decorated Member Award 500 Likes Award

    Kitkatninja aka me, myself & I Moderator

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    Based on what been said already, plus what AndiC said:

    Based on the new ICTTech and the CITP (I still believe that either the ECUK, BCS or IET will develop an IT version of the IEng, which sits in the middle), do you think that it's slowly happening? Not so much on mandatory certs/quals (maybe???, as qualifications are normally one of the things that are assessed going for the above credentials), but on assessed competences so that in order to be an IT Professional? Of course there's going to be the initial period of where the person enters the field, but after that period.

    -Ken
     
    Certifications: MSc, PGDip, PGCert, BSc, HNC, LCGI, MBCS CITP, MCP, MCSA, MCSE, MCE, A+, N+, S+, Server+
    WIP: MSc Cyber Security
  19. dalsoth

    dalsoth Kilobyte Poster

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    Voted no. If you "force" people to certify to work in IT you will just push many to cheat. Others with no natural talent will see themselves on a par with experts because they are the "same" because of the cert they braindumped.

    Those with certs who apply for jobs stand out from those that don't because it took effort and motivation to attain it. If you force everyone to certify then you will have to work twice as hard to weed out the losers from the truly passionate.

    Like some mentioned, it needs to be something that should happen at higher levels and perhaps mixed in with other regulations. This way you may fend off some of the paper certs.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCP, MCDST, MCSA, ITIL v3
    WIP: MCITP EA
  20. Majic_Munky

    Majic_Munky Bit Poster

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    Maybe instead of multiple choice exams - candidates should be faced with essay type answers, or at the very least answers with no prompts. That would very quickly sort the wheat from chaff - and get rid of the 'braindump' style websites/methods in one swoop.

    I should imagine that this style of exam together with documented experience would make the whole certification worth more.

    I am following the chartership path at work (in the geological field), I will not be able to acheive chartership without a large portfolio of work/report/presentations/CDP that I have accumilated over the last few years. I see no reason why this should not be the case for IT professionals - especially if they want their qualifications to be taken 'seriously' in the workplace.
     
    Certifications: BSc, A+, N+
    WIP: Lots!

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