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How would someone get into web/app development?

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by Juelz, May 18, 2015.

  1. Juelz

    Juelz Gigabyte Poster

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    I have a friend who couldn't continue with university due to family problems (so he says), he was originally doing computer science and wanted to go into programming. Well after much debate with him he ruled it down that he would like to go into web/app development as its an area where you don't need a degree (so they say anyway, not sure if there is any truth in it). Where would he start with this? and what is the outlook for the industry? I heard that its a dying industry and jobs are being outsourced to Asia. I tried to convince him to look down the IT support path but he said it just isn't for him. The thing that is also bothering him is that he thinks it will take him 10 years to break into the industry without any form of qualification. If anyone has any advice for him please share, I will just let him read your comments.

    Many Thanks
     
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  2. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    If you want it bad enough and have a modicum of talent then everything else is solvable...
     
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  3. JK2447
    Highly Decorated Member Award 500 Likes Award

    JK2447 Petabyte Poster Administrator

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    I was just about to say, to my knowledge only one man on here is qualified to answer this. And he did :)
     
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  4. SimonD
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    SimonD Terabyte Poster

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    I work for a company that has a lot of developers (we are an online e-gaming company) and I have to be honest and say we are getting rid of a lot of our UK devs and using near shore based devs instead (Central Europe \ Southern Europe) because for the price of one UK based Dev we can buy 3 or 4 near shore based devs.
     
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  5. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Sure software development is a resource intensive process and the resources tend to be expensive.
    Development projects typically run into the millions of pounds.
    A lot of jobs have definitely gone offshore, but off-shoring is not without issue, management costs can cause the end price to be similar.

    I still see many UK positions available, and if you are good and prepared to move around the country to find work then you shouldn't have too many issues finding work.

    Many parts of western europe and eastern europe are nice places to visit, so again even if you were required to go abroad to work, if you wanted it bad enough you'd do it.
     
  6. SimonD
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    SimonD Terabyte Poster

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    Just don't expect UK rates if you do go working in those places, I know that we wouldn't pay UK rates for someone working out in Romania.
     
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  7. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Very much depends on the role and the agreement when you go out there.

    Yes generally eastern Europe pay rates will be less, that is why roles are outsourced there, so its not going to be great pay for junior developer, on the other hand later in your career you could be given an expat package to go there as a manager/senior developer to manage local developers.

    I also mentioned western Europe, these rates are often comparable with the UK.

    'Saving money' on a development project is a somewhat tricky propositon, sure you dont spend money as fast in cheaper countries, but if you don't spend it well it doesn't matter where you are you're in trouble.
     
  8. SimonD
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    SimonD Terabyte Poster

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    That's exactly what he will be tho, starting out it doesn't make sense to get roles abroad, especially if you're then paying for accommodation as well.

    I agree, I took work in Luxembourg twice, great times and I would go back there in a flash. I am all for people expanding their horizons.
     
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  9. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Yeah I wouldnt advise it, but if its the only role they can get it might make sense. A lot of people have to pay for accommodation in the UK also, expecting to find a role near the parental home is going to be unrealistic for most people.
     
  10. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    The road I would advise is self study and programming, this could be books, going on stackoverflow, open source contributor, online video CBTs. Make sure he writes as much code as possible and learns at least one major programming language, plus the surrounding frameworks, IDE and tool-set. Also learn some basic networking, and SQL.

    For instance if he went the web developer route, he would be looking at stuff like ES6, CSS, HTML5, React, Angular, Webpack, NPM, Node, SQL, REST, HTTP. Also some general OS / CLI stuff.

    The exact stack will depend upon his interests and industry segment. Its better to learn one stack well than worry too much about the whole industry when starting out.

    Realistically we're talking 1-2 years of serious study, and in the UK education is subsidized by the tax payer, so for most there is little reason not to get a degree. If you have the drive then by all means just self study and save the £20k in uni fees, there are excellent resources on the internet for all aspects of computer science and programming.

    Then try to land either a junior web developer, junior programmer or a Junior DBA/SQL/ETL role.

    They will want some evidence of competence, so programs he has written, open source contributions he has made, and being able to explain programming concepts clearly in interviews will be key.

    Developer roles in the UK tend to be in one of 3-4 locations, if you don't live in one of these locations you would probably have to move.

    Degrees are not mandatory in the UK, ability is the main arbiter.

    My biggest questions would be that if he cant complete a degree will he put in the groundwork when hes 100% on his own self study? Also if he has family issues will he be prepared to relocate for work when necessary?
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017

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