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Help with a Training provider Plz

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by elite0_0, Apr 9, 2008.

  1. elite0_0

    elite0_0 New Member

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    So lets just say I got a degree but the competition is insane. I have had 3 interviews already but all of them took someone with more experience than me.

    So my skills gap is just increasing. So I found an advert about an IT company called Joskos and would like advice whether it is worth the money for their courses...

    Option 2:

    £4349

    IT fundamentals, A+, N+, MCSA, MCSE, MCSE:Security.
    35 Full days and all fully instructor led and online labs (for repeat lessons).
    They give Job assistance and work experience (6 weeks) placement.

    I didnt choose option 1 as I really want work experience, it matters to me alot.


    Option 3:

    £6499

    They do all the above plus CCNA (that cisco network stuff)
    mock exams, exams fully paid, laptop + network kit both to keep and of course job assistance and Work experience.


    Are both of them worth the money?

    I am really interested in option 3 as I really want to learn fully about setting up networks, not only as a educational achievment but personal as I would like to set up a "proper" network at home. But WOAH the cost!!

    Thanks in advanced guys, I appreciate it greatly.:D
     
  2. kevicho

    kevicho Gigabyte Poster

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    Most people here and microsoft themselves will tell you that an MCSE is useless without at least 1 years commercial IT experience, i think the best bet usually is to start off with the COMPTIA exams, A+, Network+ security+ as these will prove to employers your suitability for roles that are 1st line based, which will get your foot in the door.

    Also the MSDST exams for XP and vista will be more than useful as well.

    IMO Your best bet is to save that money and invest in a decent specced PC, load VMware on it, and do all the practicals you need to build up some knowledge, if you emphasise on your CV you are self studying and get a couple of certs you shouldnt really have too much problems getting a entry level job, because employers like keeness to learn and it shows you are a self starter.
     
    Certifications: A+, Net+, MCSA Server 2003, 2008, Windows XP & 7 , ITIL V3 Foundation
    WIP: CCNA Renewal
  3. stutheview

    stutheview Byte Poster

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    Self study would save you loads of money. I agree with kevicho, A+ Net+ sec+ is the way to start, get some second hand PCs to take apart, upgrade etc, get VMware. With that, buying some decent books, you'd be in the right direction.

    HTH

    Stu
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCP 70-270 70-290
    WIP: 70-291
  4. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    I agree withg whats been said, you shouldn't be going for the MCSE etc untill you have on the job experience relating to those higher end certs.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  5. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Courses do not give you experience, nor do degrees.

    When a business wants someone with "experience", they don't mean experience playing with the technology in a school lab or home lab environment... they mean real-world business IT experience, with real-world users, and real-world data, and real-world problems, and real-world downtime, with a real-world boss sitting over your shoulder wondering why they're not making any real-world profit while your real-world servers are down.

    Therefore... it won't help you to pay a training provider a buttload of money so you can get certifications that won't mean a whole lot without the appropriate level of real-world experience... and you'll be in a much worse financial situation for doing so.

    As has been advised already, pursue the A+, Network+, and MCDST, but no farther (until you get experience). Additionally, I'd encourage you to use self-study methods for all of them. See the certs in my signature line? All of them were achieved through self-study.

    If you are being beaten out for jobs by people who have experience, are you pursuing jobs that are beyond your experience level? You'll likely have to start out at the bottom of the IT career ladder if you're like 98% of us, and don't have an uncle in charge of an IT department, or get incredibly lucky by knowing someone who gets you in. That involves pursuing entry-level IT jobs, such as help desk, end-user support, PC tech support, or field service tech positions.

    Like you, I had a degree when I started out in IT. Additionally, I had messed around with computers for 18 years, and was the go-to computer guy at my work for 6 years. Know where I started? At the bottom, like everyone else. I started out as a field service tech. My background and education helped me to advance relatively quickly... but I still had to start out at the bottom.

    Hope this helps. :)
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  6. elite0_0

    elite0_0 New Member

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    thx again guys.

    But its still doing my head in. I must point out that I have got a totally different degree. Its BSc Physics. Not a bad degree, but competition is still high.

    The course will last 18 months for option 2 and 24 months for option 3. Both will make me work in labs. And also remember, they will provide 6 weeks work experience, and 56% of IT books will be provided for online.

    What do you say now? I intend to work very hard and also will be actively seeking my own work experience while I do the course.
     
  7. sunn

    sunn Gigabyte Poster

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    Think of it this way, your degree will probably help you climb the corporate IT ladder, and give you an edge over other non-experienced candidates. However, it won’t (no course will) take a higher priority over experience.

    To add some industry recognized certifications on your resume, look at the A+, Network+, and MCDST (in that order).


    -Good Luck 8)
     
  8. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    As do I... mine's in Chemistry, with a minor in Physics. Doesn't matter that much - never had an employer say that my degree wasn't worthwhile because it wasn't an Information Systems degree.

    Ultimately, the decision is up to you, but I still say it's not worth the cost. Promises made by training employers regarding work experience should be taken with a huuuuge grain of salt - if you don't believe, read some of the other threads in this and other forums.

    There's another word of warning that you haven't yet been given: getting higher-level certifications without experience make you overcertified... which is NOT a good thing. Employers with upper-level jobs won't hire you because you don't have experience... and employers with lower-level jobs won't hire you because they'll believe that you are 1) too expensive with all those certs, or 2) looking to bail to a better opportunity as soon as one arises, and then they'll just have to train someone else all over again. Gotta look at this from the employer's perspective, man... they hold all the cards, so you have to play by their rules and deal with their thought processes.

    The ONLY thing that's gonna make you more employable is experience... and you're not going to be able to get that until you get an entry-level job - a job that requires no experience. The training provider can make you work in labs for years, and you're *still* not going to have real-world user problems pop up. Ever. And people with real-world experience will continue to get the jobs over you... while you're saddled with a debt somewhere between £4349 and £6499.

    Why don't you give self-study a try with the A+, Network+, and MCDST? If you don't like it, you can always go back to your original plan of going with a training provider. One of the forum members on here, GreenBruceLee, said something to the effect of, "If you choose self-study, at least you know you won't be trying to screw yourself out of money."

    I wish you wisdom in your decision.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  9. kevicho

    kevicho Gigabyte Poster

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    It has to be said, with the $$$ signs these guys put into peoples heads it is very difficult for someone who is just starting out to shake the notion that these are still sale's pitchs

    I have worked in IT for nearly 10 years, i have tried 3 training providers (and university) who have all let me down, my self study and experience in work has taught me much more than a course can do.

    I think that that amount of money would be better invested in kit, and in savings.

    Do you drive? if not i would say this is a much better qualification than MCSE for someone starting out
     
    Certifications: A+, Net+, MCSA Server 2003, 2008, Windows XP & 7 , ITIL V3 Foundation
    WIP: CCNA Renewal
  10. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Well, they can believe those who actually WORK in the IT industry, or they can believe a guy who sells training for a training provider. It's up to them to decide which people will give the more accurate advice. Seems pretty clear to me... <shrug>
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  11. Hunter

    Hunter New Member

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    Guys it seems that some of you have sad misconceptions about Joskos LTD. they are a fab company and i would reccomend them any day. if you are not focussed and determined to "cope" with your Career/Life then that is probably something you should work on. I have done the entire course and have now got a job in a Leading IT firm thanks to Joskos. Also i think a bad worker always blames his tools.

    if you are looking for a really Professiaonal Company with excellent Training Facilities and teachers with a wealth of experience then Joskos is the way to go.
     
  12. asam.shan

    asam.shan Nibble Poster

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    I was having this issue my self and i have now decided that i will go down the self study route (or at least give it a try).

    You mentioned that you were going to put in a bucket load of effort and actively seek your own work experience.

    There is two BIG reasons for you to choose the self study route as you definitely have the right attitude for it. If you havnt already why not take a look at zimbos guide to self study.

    I hope you make the right decision for you and good look in the future.:biggrin
     
    Certifications: n/a
    WIP: a+, network+, CCNA

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