Hello

Discussion in 'New Members Introduction' started by Benjamin Woodcock, Nov 24, 2008.

  1. Mr Machfisto

    Mr Machfisto Nibble Poster

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    Joke taken GBL :biggrin

    I think it is always good to have a debate, whether your for or against it.

    it shows there are 2 or even 3 sides to a discussion.

    I don't have it in for you GBL, just don't agree with some (or most:twisted:) of your comments.

    MrM
     
  2. dmarsh
    Honorary Member 500 Likes Award

    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

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    I think the problem is different people all want different things from certification :-

    Employers
    Career switchers
    Young people / School leavers
    Human Resources
    Certification vendors
    Experienced professionals

    We cover this topic again and again.

    The problem is the certifications differ a lot, as do peoples idea of what they are for, TP salespeople and HR don't help in this.

    Some certs are entry level, some aren't.

    People used to be happy to just read books, train and study without a set study plan. Now nobody seems to care about the study, its all about the braindumps and getting cert titles.

    To me it seems certification has hurt the industry and real education.

    Unfortunately you will need to get past HR to get a job, and if they want certs what are you to do?

    I would generally advise people to instead engage in real education and training.

    Nothing to stop people from training and reading books, just no need to waste time certifying on everything.
    Reading non-cert IT books, joining a local user group, contributing open source, building a lab, going to college, now theres an idea ! :dry

    Otherwise well done Benjamin, and welcome to certforums ! :D
     
  3. Mof

    Mof Megabyte Poster

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    Well done for passing at such a young age,armed with what you have you should probably think about university as you seem to have no problem learning.
     
    WIP: C++ and A+
  4. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

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    It's nothing to do with being negative and no one suggested he stopped studying for certs.

    Being overqualified for a job can hurt your chances no matter what field the job is in, never mind IT. You may disagree with that, but it's a reality in the job market. I'm not just talking about certs here, I mean experience wise as well.

    Being 'paper' certified without the experience to back it up is a different situation, but again can hurt rather than help your chances of getting a job.

    I think you have made an assumption that because someone you don't see eye to eye with says this kind of thing, that other people that do so are somehow bitter, negative and unable to further their own career. I personally won't offer advice on something I don't have direct experience of.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCP, MCDST, MCSA 2K3, MCTS, MOS, MTA, MCT, MCITP:EDST7, MCSA W7, Citrix CCA, ITIL Foundation
    WIP: Nada
  5. BosonMichael
    Honorary Member Highly Decorated Member Award 500 Likes Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    We are positive. We think it's an incredibly positive thing to encourage people to save their money! One might say that you are being negative... but you're not: you're simply disagreeing with us. So what you perceive as "being negative" is really just us not agreeing with you.

    Advising that someone should not pursue too many certifications without experience is also a positive thing. It would be a negative (and, in my opinion, cruel and irresponsible) thing if we were to not warn them of what they are going to encounter when they start applying for jobs, would it not? We want them to succeed, not fail! :) And giving them a pathway to success is INCREDIBLY positive.

    Would you rather we say, "Dude, it's great that you are studying for that exam! Let us know what happens when you apply for jobs!" when many of us have direct experience that what they are doing will likely make things MORE difficult? If I were in his shoes, and you guys didn't warn me, I'd be thinking, "Man, NONE of those guys on that forum told me about this... they must not REALLY know what it's like to break into IT".

    True, young Mr. Woodcock never mentioned that he was pursuing anything beyond Network+, so perhaps GBL jumped the gun on his advice. Still, the information he provides is accurate, and in my opinion, helpful. If you disagree... well, then you disagree. That's neither positive nor negative. That just is what it is.

    Well, there IS a reason why this forum is one of the largest IT certification forums on the planet. :rolleyes: Obviously, they believe that they're receiving good, positive, constructive advice. And, in truth, they are.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  6. BosonMichael
    Honorary Member Highly Decorated Member Award 500 Likes Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Nobody ever said to stop studying. :) Studying != certifying.

    Uh... nope! My career HAS moved forward.

    Have you wondered why many of those on these forums who ARE experienced AND successful give the advice we do?

    And these are ours. Why are we "negative" when our opinion differs from yours?

    Many of us have seen people get overcertified and subsequently find it difficult to secure employment. If you have not, how does that make our experience wrong? Your experience is not wrong... you simply have not seen what CAN - and DOES - usually happen when someone becomes overcertified. We have. So we share that information. If you had seen that, you would share that knowledge too.

    There are certainly exceptions... but they are few and far between. If you have an inside track on how to become an exception, by all means, bottle it and sell it, man, you're sitting on a gold mine!
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!

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