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hello people

Discussion in 'New Members Introduction' started by Morpeth, Jun 15, 2009.

  1. Morpeth

    Morpeth Bit Poster

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    Hi

    Have made one or two posts but not introduced myself yet: Like so many of you I've decided IT is the thing for me and I'm trying to get certified for that first IT support job I hope to get.

    It looks like a seriously uphill struggle with no experience. I'm applying for volunteering positions atm, anything to get a foot in the door and a little exp. It's all self study for me as funds are tight!

    I passed A+ two weeks ago (Big Thankyou to these forums, read so many A+ threads)

    and my plan is

    Network+
    CCENT
    70-260 Vista

    Hopefully taking the exams in eight to twelve weeks if studies go well.

    I really hope these qualifications help me get a basic IT support job - So far with just the A+ no one is really interested in picking me up. Any hints on whether my cert track looks ok and hints on how to get experience for the CV appreciated!

    thanks and hello peeps!
     
    Certifications: A+ N+
    WIP: LPIC CCNA
  2. Sparky
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    8-12 weeks might be too ambitious mate but see how it goes anyways.

    For the job search have you highlighted any other skills from other jobs you have had that could be transferred to an IT role? For example any customer facing job that you may have had can be helpful with an entry level IT support jobs.
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Exchange 2007\2010
  3. Morpeth

    Morpeth Bit Poster

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    yeah, maybe 2 or 3 months for the n+ (I'm feeling good about this one) but I will have to take practice exams for the 70-260 and evaluate whether or not its worth sitting it so soon...
     
    Certifications: A+ N+
    WIP: LPIC CCNA
  4. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    If you don't yet have any experience, the CCENT won't do you much good. The CCENT relates to networking with Cisco gear, and jobs working with Cisco gear are typically given to people with real-world network administration experience.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  5. Morpeth

    Morpeth Bit Poster

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    thanks for advice. I'll be going for entry level support stuff early on, I was thinking as the CCENT looks like an easy introduction I could add it to some other basic certs (A+ N+ DST) to show I am serious about learning and working in IT...I'm not sure now, in the light of what you're saying, if it might be a waste of time having this though...
     
    Certifications: A+ N+
    WIP: LPIC CCNA
  6. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Employers with entry-level jobs don't need to hire someone with Cisco knowledge... they just need an entry-level tech. They'll see your certification and think one or more of the following:

    1) This guy's way overcertified for his experience level. Might be a braindumper, considering he doesn't yet have any experience. In any case, he's nothing but a "paper cert".
    2) This guy's probably going to command a larger salary than a tech who just has the A+ (or Network+ or MCDST). I don't need a Cisco guy; I just need someone to do entry-level tech work. So I think I'll hire the guy who will cost me less.
    3) This guy's got a Cisco certification, but all I have is an entry-level job. How interested is this guy going to be in doing entry-level tech work? He'll likely leave me at the first sign of a better job opening up... leaving me to find, hire, and train someone all over again. Too big of a risk for me to hire him.

    So you make yourself look LESS attractive to entry-level employers, not MORE attractive. And you won't have enough experience for anything beyond entry-level. In short, you make yourself unemployable - caught in the zone between entry-level and anything better.

    There have been quite a few people on these very forums who experienced the exact problem I state above. They worked around it by taking the CCENT, CCNA, MCSA, or MCSE off their resume... and they plan on leaving it off until they get the requisite amount of experience for it to be useful to them.

    Don't get me wrong, those are some great certifications... but only if you have the relevant amount of real-world experience to back them up. Always remember: certification isn't designed to show employers what you WANT to be doing... it's designed to show employers what you can ALREADY do. Without real-world experience, it's just a bunch of theoretical knowledge with no practical application.

    Best of luck. :)
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  7. Morpeth

    Morpeth Bit Poster

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    Uh huh, I see what you're saying here. I appreciate the advice, I'll hold off on any Cisco until/unless I get a job working with any Cisco kit.

    What about the other three - A+ N+ DST. Will these make me over certified for 1st line support? I already have the A+ and with no relevant experience no one will hire me with just that.

    Also, I don't think the A+ teaches enough for someome to start in support and be very effective. \This is why I want the DST exams as well. I wont be asking for more than the most basic salary anyway...but if I do land a support job I would like to know what I am doing somewhat when I start...

    And thats the thing I suppose, everyone says 'the certs are valueless without experience' but it seems to me theyre just not. I know a hell of a lot more about IT repair and OS maintenance because I am a 'paper cert' A+. in fact I can (have) now re-assemble a PC and replace parts etc. because the A+ knowledge I learned was not just 'theoretical' because I learned it from a book. It's been practically usefull. But no, I do not have the experience at work to back up this A+, so I shouldnt have taken it? Now look at DST...how could studying XP for months and learning how to maintain and support it, then passing an exam on the same, be considered theoretical (not of any real value)...when all the knowledge assesed at the exam is clearly practical ('what do you practically do in this situation to fix this xp problem/acheive this result). would I or would I not be much better at supporting xp with all the DST study? And how does this make me LESS attractive when salary (in UK anyway) is based on experience not quals...I'd be at the very bottom of the salary bracket anyway, and make it clear this isnt a problem to me.

    I shouldnt study more certs, yet I can't get a job with what I have....

    All the same thanks for typing out your opinions bro, I appreciate that.
     
    Certifications: A+ N+
    WIP: LPIC CCNA
  8. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Those three certifications are fine, because it is reasonable to expect an entry-level tech to be able to start doing many of the things covered on those exams.

    Even without the A+, companies will hire you with no relevant experience. You just have to find those companies. Not easy, but they exist. After all, we ALL started without experience, once upon a time. And it didn't take an MCSE certification to do so. I started with no certifications.

    Certifications are about making yourself more desirable to employers. The A+ doesn't guarantee you a job - it just makes you look better than your competition - provided they also don't have any experience.

    That's not the point. Certification is about making yourself more attractive to employers. Sure, you CAN learn stuff along the way... but that's not the primary goal of certification.

    Nothing wrong with that... the MCDST is an entry-level certification. And you will likely learn stuff as you are studying.

    Depends on the certification. Entry-level certifications are great without experience. Anything more advanced... not so much.

    Never said that. Entry-level certifications are for people who want to get into IT. By definition, an entry-level job is one in which you ENTER the field... without any prior experience.

    So... you should have taken it.

    Again, carefully read what we've said before... we were talking about the Cisco certifications, not the MCDST. The MCDST is a great certification starting out.

    Sure you can. I've been in IT long enough to know you can. Perhaps some other people on here can in fact verify that you can do it. All you need is a little encouragement, I think.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  9. Morpeth

    Morpeth Bit Poster

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    Michael, yeah, what you're saying seems reasonable. I'll keep working on the entry level stuff like DST and applying for volunteering and entry level roles - hopefully I can get into a 1st line support job or something like it. I'll keep plugging away until I get to work in this sector somehow. Again, thanks for taking time to advise me, really appreciate it :)
     
    Certifications: A+ N+
    WIP: LPIC CCNA
  10. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Anytime, my friend - that's what I'm here for! :)
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!

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