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Hello everyone! (plus a question)

Discussion in 'New Members Introduction' started by pitstopboss, Jul 20, 2008.

  1. pitstopboss

    pitstopboss New Member

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    Hi,

    I've just signed up after finding the site whilst looking at certified exams.

    I'm a programmer with some years experience with c,php,c+,perl,mysql working on windows as well as linux.
    I recently was thinking of getting into C# and perhaps getting a certification to help my learning and job prospects.

    After trawling the web, I found seeklearning and computeah, that I'm sure people on these forums are aware of...

    I was offered a MCTS as the best thing for me comprising of:

    MICROSOFT CERTIFIED TECHNOLOGY SPECIALIST (MCTS): NET FRAMEWORK 2.0 DISTRIBUTED APPLICATIONS
    MICROSOFT CERTIFIED TECHNOLOGY SPECIALIST (MCTS): NET FRAMEWORK 2.0 WEB APPLICATIONS
    MICROSOFT CERTIFIED TECHNOLOGY SPECIALIST (MCTS): NET FRAMEWORK 2.0 WINDOWS APPLICATIONS
    MICROSOFT CERTIFIED TECHNOLOGY SPECIALIST (MCTS):SQL SERVER 2005

    for the princley sum of £3295... a lot of money!

    I asked to check out their e-learning software, which they let me.. and it seems nice.
    They had a problem with me asking their mentors questions off-topic though (which was a concern).
    I'm not sure if it's going to be a big problem though.

    I then queried about perhaps doing a Java course first for £1295 :

    310-055 Sun Certified Programmer for the Java 2 Platform, Standard Edition 5.0

    The sales guy then said.. he'd chuck that course in for free if took all of them for £3295

    After some further research It became clear that I may need something for less of an expert course,
    since I was a 'beginner' with C#, and .NET... I used Visual Studio for C,C++ but not any C# or .NET things..
    I suggested perhaps I need to do the MCAD course, as that seemed be a bit lower spec.

    They then came back and said... we'll even add that course to the deal.

    I'm fairly ok with teaching myself, but I want the backup of an online course and the mentor to help me through.

    Do you think this is a good deal? (I'm inclined to think it is mainly for the fact i have access to all these courses)
     
    WIP: MCAD,MCTS
  2. derkit

    derkit Gigabyte Poster

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    When I did programming at uni, I felt it was easier and better if I worked through issues that I came across myself - and eventually found I learned and retained more than if it was just taught to me.

    I'm always wary of people who sell item1 at x price, then when you're not interested, its all of a sudden item1+2+3 for same value - something has to give somewhere and sometimes its quality of service/product that you're buying.

    I'd be tempted to check out the individual courses you've mentioned, buy a few J2SE, C#, .net books and see which one you like and can program with. Each are going to have their own advantages/disadvantages.

    You can always use CF as it has a fair number of professional programmers on here! Welcome :)
     
    Certifications: MBCS, BSc(Hons), Cert(Maths), A+, Net+, MCDST, ITIL-F v3, MCSA
    WIP: 70-293
  3. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Derkits right there is value in teaching yourself, and ultimately thats probably what will happen anyway.

    I was primarily a professional Visual C++ programmer, although I had also learnt a lot of other stuff, when I started doing certs.

    It took me about 9 months mostly part time self study to become SCJP.

    Last year I self studied for MCPD Windows applications in 3 months full time.

    Recently I have also attained MCTS SQL Server 2005, in about one month of part time study, but I had many years experience on SQL 2000.

    All of these things can be self taught over time if you are a competent programmer to begin with.
    I would argue that the core language of Java or C# is a lot easier than C++. One thing to bear in mind is if you don't have wide ranging C++ or other experience you might find learning the libraries/framework tougher as they may introduce you to unfamiliar concepts like encryption, database access, GUI, threading/concurrency, networking, WebServices, IO etc.

    For the above certs I must have spent a total of about £700, most of that on exam fees and books.

    I would determine what exactly you will get for your money, some of these providers provide very little in support and training.

    Going for MCPD Enterprise when you have no prior .Net experience is somewhat taking the p!$$ and is similar to training providers reccomending MCSE's to people with no experience. I would steer clear on this basis alone, if it sounds too good to be true it probably is.
     
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  4. pitstopboss

    pitstopboss New Member

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    Hi,

    Thanks for the welcome!

    I am wary of the discounted offering.. as it seems they're mainly interested in getting £3000 from me.
    but I did have to give them a hard time to get the other extras.

    I have a wealth of books, including Microsoft Visual C# 2005 step by step, Microsoft Visual c# 2005 express edition.. and two MCAD/MCSD books by amit kalani

    I think that the online training *may* assist my learning.... not sure how much yet, as I've usually taught myself (although not to get a qualification).


    I'm about 80% for doing the courses alongside some books as more reference as I need a bit of structure as well as reference.

    Does anyone have any *good* stories about these online learning companies... such as skillsoft?


    P.S. I do have about 15 years experience of Visual Studio C,C++, DirecxtX Win32, but none using C# and .NET
    from what I have briefly seen, it doesnt seem too hard to move into, with the appropriate learning.
     
    WIP: MCAD,MCTS
  5. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    With that much experience why even think about a course ? You should be charging them !

    The .Net libraries are largely slightly enhanced versions of the Win32/MFC/COM/ATL/ADO stuff.

    C# is largely C++ without all the baggage and a VM and Garbage Collection added.

    You might find the ASP .Net and WebService stuff a little trickier, but again one web framework or templating language is much the same as another, since you've done PHP it should not be too hard.

    Why not just read the books and take the exams with prometric when ready ?

    I'm willing to bet they will have very few teachers with 15 years exp and within a couple weeks you'll be teaching them...

    Welcome to CerForums ! :D
     
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  6. pitstopboss

    pitstopboss New Member

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    I wish I had that confidence!

    When your projects in that period of time are not varied enough, or become more a case of maintenance rather than developing with new technologies / tools, (like me) I feel that it's better for me to go into the learning environment it as a novice, so I pick up on things I may have forgotten or just don't know about. (of which I'm sure there are many).

    I'm going to check out a couple of books first I think. before taking the plunge...
     
    WIP: MCAD,MCTS
  7. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    Hi Welcome:)
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  8. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Stupid double post ! :oops:
     
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  9. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Thats a fair point but 15 years of Quality experience will always be worth more than any cert. Nobody likes maintenance projects and I try not to spend too long on them or I become rusty. They do at least provide a little time for cert study however !

    The certs are tough, don't get me wrong, but just bear in mind nobody can do it for you, in the end it will be you studying, revising and taking the exams anyway. You might as well put £2.5K in a jam jar and use it to spur you on, and at the end of it you can have a bloody good holiday ! :biggrin
     
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  10. UCHEEKYMONKEY
    Honorary Member

    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    I agree with what's already been said - Oh and Welcome to CF:biggrin
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+
    WIP: Comptia N+
  11. pitstopboss

    pitstopboss New Member

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    Thanks everyone for being welcoming and thanks for the info!
     
    WIP: MCAD,MCTS
  12. nugget
    Honorary Member

    nugget Junior toady

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    Hi and welcome to the forum. :biggrin

    How about picking up at least 1 cert study book and working through it. Then you can make up your mind if you *need* a training provider or not. The results just might surprise you.:twisted:
     
    Certifications: A+ | Network+ | Security+ | MCP (270,271,272,290,620) | MCDST | MCTS:Vista
    WIP: MCSA, 70-622,680,685

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