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Hang in there!

Discussion in 'New Members Introduction' started by moisea, Feb 15, 2010.

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  1. moisea

    moisea New Member

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    Hi, i am an IT Graduate in (comb. hons) comp. sc. and internet technologies and really don't know what i can do to get an IT job. sent more than a thousand application to agencies and companies got about less than a dozen of interviews which i though i nailed the job but nothing. when to see a professional cv writer who told me mine was fine and he conducted a sample interview after which he told me he could not find any reason why i could not get a job. i went to a point i stop applying as it was so depressing not getting interviews let alone getting answer from employers or agencies and starting working for a major supermarket.
    i decided this was not for me starting to study for the mcdst and mcse on my own i am hoping to get mcdst certified next next month and already know a lot about the mcse. Frustrated but not giving up! no way....
     
  2. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    Welcome

    You need to keep trying and not stop like I did.

    Can I mention though that you shouldn't go for the MCSE as you have no experience. Microsoft recommend that you have 12-18 months experiences and a systems engineer.

    Having high level certs without the experience could make yor job search harder because employers will expect you to hit the ground running with little or no training apart from this is where our servers are and this is your desk.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  3. SimonD

    SimonD Terabyte Poster Moderator

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    What kind of roles are you applying for? Telling us you have applied for a thousand roles is great but it could be that those roles are for Team Leader, IT Director roles (you get the idea).

    I am sorry to say but if you're applying for the wrong kind of roles you will find it difficult, especially with the market as it is at the moment, please remember that whilst you (someone new to the industry) are applying for roles there are also others (more experienced in the industry) who are also applying, getting the interview is one thing but it's at that point that you win or lose it. If you can't answer simple questions based on experience rather than answers from a book then you won't get the job.

    I would also suggest that you're perhaps targetting too high with the positions, as harsh as this may sound you may have to go in at entry level positions, not only that but you may have to also leave out your degree qualifications from the CV. As silly as it sounds you may find the reason that you're not getting the job is people are scared of your qualifications and afraid that you could take their positions away from them.

    Without knowing exactly what positions you're going for however it would be hard to say where you're going wrong.

    As a side note. I was out of work from the end of August last year until 2 weeks before Xmas, I have been in the IT side of things for 13 years and that's the longest period I have ever been out of work.
     
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  4. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    I had also made the mistake of applying for positions above my experience level after I finished uni, just because your a graduate doesn't mean your above entry level positions.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  5. moisea

    moisea New Member

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    Thanks guys,
    hi greenbrucelee, i did a lot on active directory, group policies, made numerous installation with using a different pc as dhcp server, another as file server, etc... and managed to make them talk to each other. i also repeated the process many times on windows vitual pc with few troubleshootings on the way.And i was just looking for entry level jobs.
    hi SimonD, right now i am trying to apply for the level 1 desktop support. just need to be given a chance within the IT industry and take it from there to show what i can do. you are right maybe it's because i was not focused on a specific job title as i was looking for web development positions at the same time (which i can do using php, mysql, css, xhtml, js, etc....but not what i want to do as a profession).
    Many thanks again.
     
  6. danielno8

    danielno8 Gigabyte Poster

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    i would advise against this. Someone who doesn't want to employ someone who has a degree is not someone you want to work for.

    What exactly is supposed to say he has been doing for 4 years if he just leaves it out?
     
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  7. DapperDan

    DapperDan Nibble Poster

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    What I have found in my experience that has helped is that I have been honest with recruiters (if I am applying for a job through a recruiter) of what I have experience in and what I do not. I always put a positive spin on it (eg. I am a quick learner etc) and that has seemed to get me the interviews. The only problem is that I get outdone at the interview stage. Between Jan 2007 and May 2009, I had 11 interviews for jobs. This is my second IT job since leaving university in 2000. And all this time I got rave reviews and fantastic feedback, but there was always someone who 'pipped me to the post' as most of them said. I must have had interviews for most of the firms in Sheffield it seems :)! I suppose at the very least I got interview experience, and I think I have had every question in an interview thrown my way in that time :). But being honest seemed to have got me the interviews as I was willing to learn the technologies I had no real work experience in.

    But the key is not to give up and keep going.
     
    Certifications: ITIL v3; A+, Network+
  8. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    The problem is that it doesn't take a degree to do entry-level tech work. An entry-level employer may think that you're way overqualified with a degree or that you'll be leaving as soon as something better comes along... leaving them to find, hire, and train someone all over again. But they will lack the experience to do anything more advanced than entry-level work.

    So... Simon's comment is spot-on. If an entry-level employer doesn't say that a degree is preferred or required... I'd probably leave it off.
     
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  9. danielno8

    danielno8 Gigabyte Poster

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    i'm not saying you need a degree to do entry-level work.

    If it's the case that having a degree makes you more qualified then apply for the positions which are out there for those with a degree. You can't just leave 4 years of your life off your CV at the start of your career.

    For the record, i got a job coming from uni with my uni degree on my CV.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2010
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  10. BosonMichael
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    But we are specifically discussing someone who has a degree and is finding it difficult to get their first IT job, which, by definition, SHOULD be an entry-level IT job. Thus, the degree CAN make it more difficult to get that first IT job SPECIFICALLY because a degree is not required for an entry-level job.

    Don't misunderstand... it makes you LOOK more qualified... meaning, more expensive and more likely to walk away when something better comes along.

    Understand? :)

    ...and for that, you'll look underexperienced... because you would be.

    And now you're discovering why most of us here recommend that you do entry-level tech work WHILE you are pursuing a degree. ;)

    So did I, 12 years ago. Not saying it's impossible. But if someone's having trouble getting a job WITH their degree on their CV, taking it off **is** a potential solution.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
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  11. danielno8

    danielno8 Gigabyte Poster

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    Pretty much everyone on here finds the first IT job hard. It's funny how every single person in my course is placed in an IT job and i don't know of any who decided to delete 4 years of their life from their CV.

    yes, yes i am going to walk away, that is unless there is career progression available in this company and i choose to stay. Everyone with some ambition is going to move on, if they don't look to move on from an entry level role then there is something not right IMO.

    You really advocate telling the employer you have spent 4 years doing part-time tech work and nothing else just so as not to say you have a computing based degree?
     
    Certifications: CCENT, CCNA
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  12. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Just advice, man. You can follow it or reject it. But I've known plenty of people who have had trouble getting an entry-level job with a degree on their resume... and I've known plenty of people who have gotten an entry-level job with a degree on their resume. All I am saying is that it is something to consider if you're having trouble. And that cannot be denied.

    And that is my point. An employer isn't as likely to hire you if they think you're gonna up and walk away soon.

    Get some years under your belt and you'll see what I mean.

    No... because if I've done part-time tech work, I won't be going after entry-level jobs. Aha!!!! ;)
     
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  13. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    I have said it on here before and I'll say it again. If I could go back in time I would have gotten my certs and experience first and done a degree/hnd part time whilst working.

    To be honest I don't think a degree means a whole lot these days, I know a lot of people who hardly have any further education behind them and they could do jobs a lot better than some people who have degrees.

    Experience will always win especially in IT and employers know this.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  14. danielno8

    danielno8 Gigabyte Poster

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    i find it one of the least likely reasons the OP is struggling to find a job.



    the employers you know are dreaming if they think the people they hire are going to sit still and just stay doing the same job year after year.



    yep well that situation is totally different then. But you do advocate to the OP to hide his degree, despite the fact he has not got 4 years of part time tech work.
     
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  15. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    And that's why you sit on that side of the employment table and I sit on THIS side of the employment table.

    They have no such illusions. But they aren't usually going to set out to hire someone who is definitely going to leave versus someone who might stick around for a while.

    If you doubt, please reference the beginning of this post.

    EDIT: The point is NOT that you have to force yourself to stick around... the point is that you should LOOK like you're gonna stick around for a while. A degree does not do that.

    And you advocate to the OP to keep banging his head against the wall. Nice. :rolleyes:

    His current plan to get the MCSE will only compound the problem.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2010
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  16. danielno8

    danielno8 Gigabyte Poster

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    hold on, you sit on one side of a table because you suggest to someone that i MIGHT benefit them to hide a degree?

    So someone with a degree, is less likely to stay than someone who has just joined IT, also with no experience?

    Why EXACTLY? Tell me why someone who has a degree will stay less time?

    And what is this magical length of time the employer is looking for? What is exactly deemed long enough? Everything appears to just be black and hite to you so lets have the figures

    Let me get this straight....because my opinion is that he should keep the degree on his CV, what i am actually saying is bang your head against a wall? Despite the fact you have already said taking the degree off merely has the POTENTIAL to help him, in your opinion.

    I have not discussed his MCSE plans, so it's not relevant to this discussion.
     
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  17. BosonMichael
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    No... I sit on one side of the employment table because I review resumes of people who want to be employed for positions. And you sit on the other side of the employment table, having only applied for jobs.

    Yep.

    Because they're usually looking to move up... and they tend to do so far quicker than someone without a degree.

    If you doubt that, just ask anyone who is an IT manager or senior tech on this board.

    Come on, Daniel, let's not be childish. They're not looking for a "magical length of time". They want an employee to stay around "as long as possible". They can maximize that chance by hiring a certain kind of employee.

    Just in case you missed my last edit, the point is NOT that you have to force yourself to stick around... the point is that you should LOOK like you're gonna stick around for a while. A degree does not do that.

    Yes, because he's got the degree on his CV and he's having trouble getting a job. Thus, "keeping on doing" what he's already doing is, in fact, banging his head against the wall.

    Albert Einstein once said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

    No, but the **OP** discussed his MCSE plans. Let's not lose sight of the fact that this entire thread is to help **him**, not for us to have a "discussion". :rolleyes:
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
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  18. craigie

    craigie Terabyte Poster

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    Hey can you guys teach me how to quote so much in a post.

    It must be a record.

    Carry on.
     
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  19. danielno8

    danielno8 Gigabyte Poster

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    thankfully you weren't reviewing my CV when i left uni. Or any of my classmates.

    Who isn't looking to move up though? how many people stay in an entry level position longer than 1-2 years? I understand an employer wanting the most amount of time out of an employee. But they also know people will move on/up. If every manager looked for what you seem to be saying they are people simply wouldn't get jobs when leaving uni. They do though.

    I'm also not being childish, you seem to have this length of time someone needs to look like they are going to stay before they will be employed, i just want to know what it is.

    Right, so what your saying is that if i disagree with that one suggestion, that what i am actually saying is keep doing exactly what you are doing i.e. banging his head against a wall?


    no i have not lost sight. We are discussing a certain part of his situation, therefore his MCSE plans are not relevant to our discussion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2010
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  20. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Done.

    That'll be $1.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
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