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hands up if you're guilty ?

Discussion in 'Networks' started by grim, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. grim

    grim Gigabyte Poster

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    gotta admit i've been guilty of this on many occassions :oops:

    grim
     
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  2. zxspectrum

    zxspectrum Gigabyte Poster Premium Member

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    Ive got to admit , ive done it too there is an unencrypted network near us, thoughh in my defence , if i have one i only used if for mail etc and not getting free music etc .

    Ed
     
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  3. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    A friend of mine lives in an apartment complex, he has wireless broadband with sky, so does the guy next door, when my mate logs in he can see all the wireless setups, the guys next door isnt encrypted (no key symbol) so my mate can basically use his wifi.

    I say its the guys fault for not encypting it.
     
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  4. Kraven

    Kraven Kilobyte Poster

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    Well I'm definitely guilty, me and a pal used to go wardriving alot. We wouldnt just get onto the unencrypted networks but also crack into the WEP enabled networks as well. Obviously we didnt abuse anything, it was just the fact that we knew we could if we wanted to.

    Kraven
     
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  5. jamman32

    jamman32 Nibble Poster

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    Guilty also, used neigbours dsl line as it was not encrypted.

    its suprising how many people are still using unencrypted networks.
     
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  6. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Is it okay for you to walk into my house if I don't lock my door?

    Okay, you can throw out the argument that the signal's intruding into your space. Can you steal my credit card number from my wireless traffic if I don't encrypt it? Where's the line?

    Is it okay to split your neighbors cable signal? They'll never know the difference, and you're not making it more difficult for them to use cable, right?

    Have a little integrity, folks. It's not yours to use; don't use it. :dry
     
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  7. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    I can honestly say I've never done this. I've done some less than honest things in my life, but stealing wifi isnt one of them.
     
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  8. Theprof

    Theprof Petabyte Poster Forum Leader

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    Same here I've never gone on any one elses unsecured Wi-Fi before, however I did come across many in my location. I always feel kind of guilty for the ones that don't secure their wireless because probably they are not knowledgeable about wireless security. I've warned people in my building regards to their unsecure wireless and even helped them set it up, but I never ever used or took advanage of any of these situations.
     
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  9. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    I have never done it, it was my friend.
     
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  10. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    Just noticed an unsecured Netgear WAP has appeared when I last scanned for wireless networks from my laptop. Vista flags it as a security risk as it is unsecured.

    In some cases users can connect to wireless access points by mistake. I support many remote users and they have a Netgear 834G router which supports wireless broadband. In some cases if the user has had issues connecting to the wireless connection they play around with the laptop and end up connecting to something! The last time I helped a user over the phone she was connected to a network called MADMAN. As you do! :biggrin
     
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  11. Phoenix
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    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    If I have a wireless sniffer set up that does not penetrate my walls.. and your credit card number gets sniffed because you transmitted it in clear text over the air
    damn right i haven't done anything wrong, its akin to plastering it up on the Jumbotron at a Cowboys game ffs

    Is it wrong to tap into someone elses wifi knowingly? its not polite that's for sure, I'm not convinced its stealing either, should it be an arrestable offence? no way, it makes as much sense as locking up anyone who walks across the back of a farmers land as a short cut

    we need to cut the crap and get to the civility of the issue, sure, its not polite no, is it wrong? I don't think so either, I think its wrong to break the encryption and tap into a secured network, I don't think its wrong to use a publicly broadcast network

    this debate can go on forever with the various sides and comparisons, but everyone will compare the act to something different, so it won't really get anywhere, and we have had it many times before
    I'm still at odds with my exact stance myself, my upbringing says no don't do it, but that's purely manners, I still cant justify arresting someone for using a publicly broadcast service! (that's exactly what it is at the end of the day, your broadcasting a service, publicly, with no disclaimers or warnings mentioning otherwise)


    Being I'm the polite kind, I don't really do it, and try and encourage others not to do it as well, but my viewpoint is still of a pretty neutral one in regards to what happens to those who do it
     
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  12. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    Well said, I whole heartedly agree.
     
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  13. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    So, if I leave my keys in my car, and you see them, it's OK for you to take it for a drive while I'm sleeping because I didn't hide the keys or keep them on my person?

    The problem with saying that it's OK to use what someone else paid for just because you can, leads to real ethical problems when taken to its logical end. It's a slippery slope in which it becomes progressively easier to self-justify more and more that we want to do just because we can. It's like that old axiom that says the first lie is the hardest. Once you done it, it just gets easier and easier to do because the person doing it loses their sense of doing wrong the more they do it.
     
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  14. tripwire45
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    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

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    I haven't done this but a fellow I used to work for did it all the time. In fact, he'd go out of his way to do it. He aimed a directional antenna at a doctor's office he knew had unsecured wifi so he could latch onto their signal and use the Internet on their dime.

    He eventually stopped because a bunch of us at work gave him heck for it.

    I have to agree with the "if I left my keys in the car's ignition and you saw there was the opportunity to steal my car, you'd still be wrong" crowd. Even if I did something really, really stupid, it's still wrong for you to break the law to take advantage of it.
     
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  15. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    LOL

    Ummm.... I've done it on more than a few occasions (natch). I used to go wardriving a lot, even though I'm one of those sad freaks who just did it because I wanted to learn how it was done. I'll never forget the rush the first time I used cowpatty to break wpa... ahhhhh - memories :biggrin

    Of course, I wouldn't do it to thieve service from someone - the same as I wouldn't hack unethically even if the rewards were astronomical (and I've been offered some pretty large sums of cash in the past year or so on two separate occasions).

    I think it all comes down to where your moral compass is set. I hack wlans because I want/need to learn. I don't do it to nick credit card numbers, upload music files to my mates via ftp or set up porn sites. I pretty much agree with Phoenix - if the network has security (even wep), then obviously you're dealing with someone who at least has the first clue about his/her shite. I wish there were some way for me to wirelessly change someon'e settings to WPA2-PSK and throw up a webpage for them the first time they log in explaining that I have done a 'drive-by padlocking' on their network, making it more secure. Actually, there probably is a cool way to do that with a Kismet drone and some nifty html... :biggrin
     
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  16. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    I can understand where you're coming from, but at the same time it's still problematic for me. Because of my interest in security breaking the security for no other reason than to learn is a real temptation for me. However, I just look at it as how I would view it if were done to me. I wouldn't like it, even if nothing was stolen, defaced, or corrupted. It would be a violation of my personal space that I wouldn't take kindly to. So, I don't do that to others.

    I do all my learning along lines such as that on my own systems or systems that I have both the legal and moral right to "explore" in that manor. It may limit how fast I learn, and what all I have exposure to, but I have to like who I see in the mirror in the morning or life just isn't very enjoyable. Violating my own conscience isn't a way to get me to like myself, or to like living with myself.
     
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  17. BosonMichael
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    Wasn't pointing at you... was pointing at ANYONE who does this crap.

    Who wants to get their start in IT and make money on the side? Go around finding unsecure access points and charge an hourly rate to secure them for companies and residences.
     
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  18. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    I never said it was criminal... I simply suggested that people have some integrity and don't use what they haven't been given permission to use.
     
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  19. AJ

    AJ Administrator Administrator

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    Never done it, never had the need to. There are 5 (including mine) wireless networks where I live and they are all encrypted. If I found one that wasn't I would try and make an effort to find out who's it was and help a neighbour out. :D
     
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  20. grim

    grim Gigabyte Poster

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    i only do it when i'm out and about and i find an unsecured connection on my phone as there are free wifi points around london :)

    grim
     
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