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Gns3 to be or not to be

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by ITworkxperience, Sep 16, 2010.

  1. ITworkxperience

    ITworkxperience Bit Poster

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    I was recently informed by a member of this forum(BM) that the use of GNS3 (with my own IOS from kit that I purchased) for studying purposes contravened certain rules that Cisco had laid down.
    Personally, I think it's a no brainer!!! GNS3 has been used over the years by numerous students worldwide to replicate ideal lab topologies to prepare for certification.Cisco have not taken action against them because these actions do not threaten their bottom line!Having done further research and discussions with a number of my peers GNS3 is highly rated and fills in a gap in the market for those who want a simulator that gives them everything they need to preparre for certification.
    A number of references to this same topic have been discussed on Cisco's learningnetwork forum and funnily enough this same product seems to be endorsed by cbt nuggets a product I also rate highly.
    http://www.cbtnuggets.com/series?id=625
    Let's not be hypocritical about this! I am not endorsing illegal activities but I find it mind boggling that a member of a learning forum would want to stiffle the use of a free product simply because he does not endorse it.
    I wonder why? It would'nt be because he works for a competitor would it? It's in the name!!!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
    Certifications: CCNA
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  2. Ubergeek

    Ubergeek Bit Poster

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    Next, they'll be kicking your door down for ripping mp3s from CDs that you own :rolleyes:
     
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  3. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    You might own the bit of plastic... but you in no way own the music on that CD.
     
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  4. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    First, Boson is not a "competitor" of GNS3. Boson creates educational training content, and GNS3 is an emulator engine. For us to compete, we would 1) both need to be in the same business and 2) both be selling something. GNS3 is free; thus, we are not competing.

    Second, GNS3 isn't illegal, in and of itself. Only the use of Cisco's IOS inside GNS is what is illegal.

    Third, I'd love to be able to use Cisco's IOS legally in GNS3... then we could simply sell lab training. I can promise you, it'd make our job a heck of a lot easier.

    Finally, as I mentioned in your other thread, this discussion has already been done before, here. Cisco Legal has already responded, and they affirmed that you cannot use the Cisco IOS outside of Cisco hardware using Dynamips (and, therefore, GNS3). Doesn't matter what you, I, or anyone else thinks about the subject... it matters only what the Cisco, who owns the IOS, thinks.

    If you want to use Cisco's IOS illegally, do whatever you think you need to do. But the fact remains that it is illegal per Cisco's licensing, and shouldn't be condoned on this forum.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
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  5. ITworkxperience

    ITworkxperience Bit Poster

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    BM GNS3 is an emulator engine also used for educational purposes!! . It does come across in the voracity of your numerous posts that you do consider it your duty to pan GNS3 users.

    A quick e-mail to Cisco legal department regarding the legal stance they take towards the usage of their IOS outside of their equipment is going to elicit the dogmatic company policy which is that it is illegal.

    I suspect that if you were to have the people that mattered in Cisco around for tea and biscuits on the QT the story would be different. It would probably go something like this......

    “I would like to use your IOS in a software program that will help us learn and understand your kit so that we may install, configure and promote your systems, what would you think of that?”

    I suspect the reply would be, “do what you like with it"

    But until we do get Cisco around for tea and biscuits the usage of the IOS outside of the equipment is illegal and should not be condoned, this is where I do agree with you BM, but what is amusing is the force by which you claim the moral high ground to protect your own interests.Nothing wrong with that of course we all have to fight our own corner, but please don’t think I am oblivious of your intentions!! .:shocked

    Also, can anyone point out where in the forum rules it states that we cannot discuss the usage of GNS3, this is just a question, since if it is against forum rules then I will desist from posting comments regarding GNS3
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2010
    Certifications: CCNA
    WIP: CCNA/CCNP
  6. soundian

    soundian Gigabyte Poster

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    It's not discussing the usage of GSN3 that's the issue, it's discussing the usage of Cisco IOS in a way which Cisco explicitly forbid.
    Anything which puts this forum on shaky legal ground is to be avoided, that's why one of the forum rules forbids promoting the usage of products in a way which breaches the law or the T&Cs of use. It's not a big deal, avoid discussing it at all and the problem goes away.
    I don't think "but everyone does it" is a valid legal defence.
     
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  7. ThomasMc

    ThomasMc Gigabyte Poster

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    Quote:
    “ Originally Posted by ITworkxperience
    At the end of the session Joe kindly went through Private Vlans and how they work and he also described GNS3, although he did not demonstrate how to use it. Apparently his machine did not have it loaded, but he showed us where to down load the GNS3 program from the website. ”

    "Cool. How's that work without the IOS?" BosonMichael asked, though it seemed as if he already knew the answer...



    So did BM break the T&C or ITworkxperience
     
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  8. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    Look - lets put this to bed right now before it gets into a slanging match. Use of the Cisco IOS inside GNS3 is against Cisco's licensing terms and conditions. I don't see what's so difficult to grasp about this. Whether YOU or ANYONE ELSE thinks that's wrong is neither here nor there. IT. IS. AGAINST. CISCO'S. LICENSING. POLICY. End of discussion.

    If you have a personal axe to grind with BM's participation on this forum (and it appears as though you do), might I suggest that you conduct your discussions via PM? All your post is going to do is cause an argument.
     
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  9. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Worst. Argument. Ever.

    So, you're OK using a ripped off version of Windows, as long as you only use it in a virtual environment whilst studying? MS would be OK with that? If you gave them a biscuit?

    :blink
     
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  10. cisco lab rat

    cisco lab rat Megabyte Poster

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    I had posted a reply, but I am going to keep out of this whole issue. More than my sanity is worth
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2010
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  11. michael78

    michael78 Terabyte Poster

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    .....
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2010
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  12. michael78

    michael78 Terabyte Poster

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    If GNS3 is an emulator then it's use is legal and it's how you use it that makes it illegal just like games emulators and ROMS. I can't see there being an issue in discussing it's use on CF as long as you don't discuss using IOS with it or where to download it from.
     
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  13. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    But the fact that you CAN'T use the Cisco IOS with GNS pretty much renders any discussion ABOUT GNS utterly useless. That's why there aren't any discussions about it.
     
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  14. michael78

    michael78 Terabyte Poster

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    Regardless Zeb it's still legal to download otherwise CISCO would shut them down. How you use it is to your conscience. I can't see an issue in people discussing legal software as long as they don't discuss the illegal parts. How much use that discussion would be I don't know.
     
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  15. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    No offence, but that argument holds no water at all. If there were any other uses for GNS then you could legitimately argue that point, but the entire reason that GNS exists is to emulate Cisco networks. Since there is no legal way to use a Cisco IOS outside of a Cisco router, what point is there in discussing it? What would you discuss? Its like if someone designed a special product for your car that made it absolutely invisible to speed cameras (and only to speed cameras). Since there would be precisely zero legitimate uses for that product, there is no possible way that any discussion about it could be construed as NOT being related to using it for illegal purposes - even though the product itself might be legal to buy.

    Unless, of course, you or anyone else can show a legitimate use for GNS without infringing on Cisco's IOS licensing Ts & Cs?
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2010
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  16. michael78

    michael78 Terabyte Poster

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    I suppose that is why I make the point of not allowing the discussion of the illegal parts of it ie IOS or how to get hold of IOS. I'm going off the fact that is the software illegal and it's not in the eyes of the law (as with other emulators) so it should be allowed to be mentioned on CF at a basic level otherwise CF would be censoring something that isn't illegal. I see your point Zeb but I'm going off the black or white argument on this. Anyways as I don't use it I've probably said all I have to on the subject. I just don't think people should be shot down for asking about it on here (not that I'm saying they have or will be).
     
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  17. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    This. GNS3 is useless without the Cisco IOS; it has no other uses. Thus, to use GNS3 (other than as an app that does absolutely nothing), you have to violate Cisco's licensing terms.

    It is quite clear from the previous GNS3 posts that they mean to use it for Cisco studies. And you can't do that without violating Cisco's licensing terms.

    Should they be "shot down" for condoning piracy? or braindumps? Because that's just as much against the forum rules as using GNS3 for Cisco studies is.
     
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  18. Josiahb

    Josiahb Gigabyte Poster

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    Unless your using JunOS.... License is probably subject to the same restrictions but GNS3 still provides emulation for them so lets not ignore the poor buggers :p
     
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  19. michael78

    michael78 Terabyte Poster

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    Guys lets take the law as an example would Cisco be able to take civil action against someone for downloading Gns off the website? Answer is no, simple, end of. I'm not talking about it's intended use just the actual software. I'll leave grown people to their own conscience on what they do with it. I'm not talking about piracy or braindumps so that is a mute point Michael.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2010
    Certifications: A+ | Network+ | Security+ | MCP | MCDST | MCTS: Hyper-V | MCTS: AD | MCTS: Exchange 2007 | MCTS: Windows 7 | MCSA: 2003 | ITIL Foundation v3 | CCA: Xenapp 5.0 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Administrator on Windows 7 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Support Technician on Windows 7
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  20. UKDarkstar
    Honorary Member

    UKDarkstar Terabyte Poster

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    I think we're fast approaching the point in this thread where all has been said.
     
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