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fraser mckenzie repayments

Discussion in 'Employment & Jobs' started by natt, Jul 10, 2009.

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  1. natt

    natt Bit Poster

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    i will start from WTF was i thinkig.

    anyway, signed contract wih FMK in june 2008. no forum were available telling you about any scams ideas.

    anyway, i signed up with my partner as guarantor, and the loan is in his name.

    then i finished ALL required exams in 11 months, so they are supposed to pay the entire course fee.

    now the trouble is bank took the fist payment on 4th, and FMK still has not paid anything into his account.

    problem number two is that i still didnt get interview proposition, in fact they keep on telling me to call various companies myself when it is their bloody job as far as im concerned. also, they are trying to convinve me to go for telesales, but i am not really interested. so am becoming very, very worried... what to do??

    has anybody completed this course and have any advice for me???
     
    Certifications: mcdst, mcsa, mcse
  2. Len

    Len Byte Poster

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    Do your research next time. By that I mean use other sources instead of just the internet.
     
    Certifications: BND IT Practitioners
    WIP: Comptia A+
  3. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    No offence, but the standard of your written English is pretty poor. This may well be reflected in your CV as well - have you had it looked over professionally? If a CV isn't good, then irrespective of what your qualities are as a tech, you'll find it difficult getting work.

    Regarding the TP itself, join the club. There are literally thousands of people out there who believed the hype about the TP getting them a job paying x amount of £k pa as soon as they passed their exams. Its all, as you are finding out, bull****. There are hundreds of posts, going back years, on this forum and others about this type of companies. Its a shame, but the worst thing you can do is wallow in self-pity now. Get out there and hit all the recruiters with a good CV as soon as you can. Register your CV on all the jobsites you can. Apply for every job going. Send your CV and a covering letter to all the firms in your area who employ IT staff (that will be most of them). Start looking for voluntary work (local charities, community projects etc) as this looks very good on your CV to a prospective employer.

    In short, seize the day!

    Good luck
     
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em
  4. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    What is wrong with the world?

    Natt, all of your posts seem to indicate that you haven't got a clue what you are doing.
    You've signed up for a course but don't know what it is.
    You don't know what exams you are supposed to be taking or what happens next.

    The only thing that you seem sure of is that someone promised you a job at the end of it all.
    But you aren't sure how that works either.

    If FM are dicking you about, pull out the contract that you've got with them, show them the bit that they aren't sticking to and ram it down their throats. If you can't do that then just walk away and get on with your life.

    Essentially, in your mind, you've done a deal where someone said to you 'give me £5k now, and I'll give you £25k per year for life'. And you've said 'wow, what a great deal!' But you didn't think to ask if there was more to it than that.

    So you've given them £5k and now you're sitting there in the dark saying 'hang on, where's my £25k per year?'

    But then instead of going back to the guy you did the deal with, you're tapping passers by on the shoulder and asking if they know how to get your £25k.

    Sorry if it sounds harsh, but sometimes when you look at things in a slightly different context it really shows how little sense it all makes in the cold light of day.

    On the bright side though, you've got some top quality certs there, and provided that you understand what it was that you studied to get them, then you should be able to find something that suits you.

    Just don't tell an employer how you got them.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  5. T-90

    T-90 New Member

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    Natt, you’re not alone. I signed in June last year completed the training within the year and now I find that FM are not covering the cost of the loan as agreed in the contract. My advice is to send a letter (via registered post) to both FM and Barclays Partner Finance setting out your complaints (quoting the contract) and close your bank account and refuse to pay.

    Remember, you are the victim of a fraud, and you should never pay in such circumstances. If you are taken to court by BPF you will have a very good defence. But they are unlikely to litigate against you as that would cost them money, and they may not win of course. Besides which, even if a judge rules against you he may decide that you only need to pay back a nominal sum (say £5 a month).

    If you can get legal aid, it might be worth considering legal action against FM to recover the money. It will be dealt with through the small claims court. You can fill in a form online.

    http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/claims/index.htm

    Understand that I am not a solicitor, just reading other debtors experiences over at sites such as moneysavingexpert.com and consumeractiongroup.co.uk.
     
  6. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    If the loan is over £5k they are not obliged to deal with it in the small claims courts, it still might be worthwhile you pursuing it though depending on the circumstances. Agreed get legal advice if you think there is a breach of contract, however bear in mind they wrote the contract, so its likely to have many terms in their favour.

    Did you show it to a lawyer before you signed it ? That would probably have a been a better idea.

    Personally I wouldn't do business with anyone I didn't trust, contract or no contract, its not worth the hassle.

    I don't like to complicate my life with such stuff, so I's probably move on, but if you are passionate and think you have a case ultimately its up to you.
     
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  7. LukeP

    LukeP Gigabyte Poster

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    As far as I belive their contract says you CANNOT look for a job yourself. If you find a job yourself they're not going to pay any of your loan off. When I was given the contract to sign (which I haven't) I am pretty sure that's what was in it.

    Double check your contract mate.
     
    WIP: Uhmm... not sure
  8. Martina

    Martina New Member

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    Hallo, I need a real advice. I have signed for FM in august 2008 but I have no time to finish the course. I did classroom courses but I have no time to do the exams. Could anybody tell me, who has experienced with it, when you sign up, then do not finish the course, will they charge you anything? thank you
     
  9. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Have any of you actually got a copy of the contract?
    Can someone say what it actually says in black & white regarding course fees and finding a job?

    It would help to know, and then we may be able to give you some advice.

    At the moment, nobody seems too sure.

    8)
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  10. natt

    natt Bit Poster

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    1-my English is not bad, thank you very much :D In fact, I type a bit too fast and maybe i don't focus much when i'm full of emotions but me cv is a lot better than it used to be.

    2-it's right that if i find a job myself they will not pay for my course as the whole idea is they are meant to pay because they will make commission on putting me into a job with one of their clients.

    3-i'll find the contract and write it down properly and then please give me ur best advice.

    4-oh, and btw m not sure why some of u guys wrote as though i was the one in the wrong for not knowing stuff. i was misled like many other people but i am not complaining about it. what i am complaining about is the fact that i have done all that was asked of me, passed my mcdst, mcsa and mcse within 11 months only because i was desperate to get a job and i still havent got it and i still have not received money to cover the cost of the loan. so to me it is as close as it gets to the end of the world because my hands are tied for now.

    i will post the contract as soon as i can.
     
    Certifications: mcdst, mcsa, mcse
  11. natt

    natt Bit Poster

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    i have just been told that fraser mckenzie no longer exists and i have bee given a mobilenumber of some guy called Nim and it is going straight to voicemail. i need to find a way of paying that loan off. please please please give me your advice!
     
    Certifications: mcdst, mcsa, mcse
  12. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    You may be in trouble.

    Talk to the bank and see if they know what's happened to FM and ask them what you should do.
    Depending on timescales, you could argue that the bank has funded training that you have not received/cannot receive, so ask them what they suggest.

    Try asking CAB what they think.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  13. natt

    natt Bit Poster

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    i have received so called training which means online course and i have passed all exams....
     
    Certifications: mcdst, mcsa, mcse
  14. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    Natt - the reason we're pissed off is because, firstly, most of us on here are already in the IT industry, and worked ridiculously hard to get into it. You have cheated your way to a certification that is supposed to be the 'blue riband' of qualifications for working with Microsoft technologies (the MCSE). Also, we're annoyed that there were ample opportunities for you to do your research before getting scammed - but you chose not to use them.

    It might sound heartless - it's not meant that way. What I am about to tell you will not be easy for you to hear, you might get irate, pissed off or start thinking "Who is he, he doesn't know anything about my situation" - but I suggest that you take it on board, because without doing so you will end up wasting an enormous amount of time, money and energy - time, money and energy you could spend looking for a job.

    First up, you will not get out of paying off the loan. You just won't. This scam (or variations of it) have been going on for at least ten years (that I'm aware of) - many of them run by the same few people. They just do it over and over again until the heat gets too much, then go bust and reform under a different name, with a different address. The finance company couldn't give a toss about you - as far as they are concerned, you signed up for a loan - they don't care if it was an unsuspecting, naive kid signing up for IT training, or someone buying a job-lot of toasters - you signed up for a loan, period. They want their money back - and the last thing you should do is start thinking about ways to get out of paying it.

    You should spend every single bit of energy you have getting a job in IT. If you really want to work in this industry, and you have the aptitude to do so, you will. It might take you a long while to do it, but you'll get there in the end. Sign yourself up with every single IT recruitment agency you can find, start posting your CV off to local companies in your area, do 'CV runs' where you take hundreds of copies of your CV out and drop them in to every local business you can find, scour the Internet for vacancies etc etc etc. If you waste your time trying to get out of paying your loan, all that will happen is that you'll end up with no job, and a County Court Judgement against you (the last thing you want when you don't have gainful employment)

    Take any reference to the MCSE and MCSA off your CV right now. You are overqualified, inexperienced and any job interview you have pitched at the level of an MCSE will go hopelessly over your head. You're stuck in the unenviable position of having cheated your way to an extremely advanced certification without having the skills necessary to back that up - keep your CV at a basic level. The MCDST isn't quite as difficult to achieve without experience (though there are plenty of people on here who would disagree completely with the practice of putting ANY certifications you didn't obtain legitimately on your CV) and you're less likely to get put forward for roles you don't have a hope of getting if at least those roles you do interview for are pitched more at your skill level.

    Its not nice to read that, I know. No-one likes to be conned, or to read about someone else being conned. It sticks in the craw to know there are turds out there who can get away with running the same scam time and time again - the people who run companies such as Fraser McKenzie are no different to any other con merchants running timeshare, foreign property, foreign lottery or any other scam. However, a failure to accept this on your part won't do you any good. Use your anger in a positive way. Go out and get a job, get yourself out of debt and knuckle down in it.

    I don't usually bother with this - because most people that come on here pissing and moaning about a training provider just disappear after making one post - but you've stuck around over a longer period of time, so obviously have a bit more sense than most of the others. If you want to PM me for a private chat where I can give you some more advice, or if there are aspects to your situation that you don't want to go into on a public message board, feel free to do so.

    The best of luck to you, whatever happens.
     
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em
  15. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    I do tend to agree with zebulebu on this, its in your own personal best interests to move on and to focus on positive things like building a career and real education.

    However, its just possible that a week of letter writing to all the companies involved, OFT, Trading Standards, Consumer Direct, Watchdog, Education bodies etc. Might help someone else out in future, so I would consider putting a little effort into informing the authorities of the situation.

    You may be able to get some sort of IVA for the loan, so talk to CAB about that also.

    Stopping payments will affect your credit record as they will show as missed payements, you won't get a CCJ without a court ruling, you can always pay on the day of the court hearing, so its upto you how you deal with that, I would definitely avoid a CCJ, but if you felt you had a stong case (for example non delivery of services etc) it would have been an option. In your case IVA sounds best, might allow you sort yourself out on the job front.
     
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  16. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    :eek:

    No - surely not... :biggrin

    Seriously, you do have a good point - a few quick letters to the finance company and local trading standards probably wouldn't hurt. I was actually thinking a few days ago that a class-action lawsuit might be a good idea, if there were, say, eighty people willing to team up, it might be a decent early case for UK class-action law (which is, I think I'm right in saying, still very much in its infancy over here) - but since the company's gone bust there's not much chance of that.
     
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em
  17. natt

    natt Bit Poster

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    ok. thank u. however, cheating my way doesnt sound very fair cos i have worked my butt off for 11 months working full time and studying at night. it was very, very hard.

    ur right, it is useless without experience-so what i have the theory if i cannot use it. i do not feel qualified at all. but i dd work for it...

    another thing is-i could not check that scam cos there was nothing about it. i have worked hard and one day typed fmk in the browser and i came accross this forum. and no, i am not here to have a moan. even tho i have been crying my eyes out because i feel i hav been done. my hard work went for absolutely nothing. surely u wuldn't expect me to be extatic about it? :)

    all i need to know is that if they have limited at the end of companys name what does it mean in reality for me once they disappear? i mean i read this contract million times, according to it they have to pay. but how do i get them to do it if they are nowwhere to be found? i feel i have a good batle on my hands... or maybe it is my naivety speaking again?

    i know that for all these people who worked for years to be qualified it must be frustrating hearing from kids about them being stupid but then i am the kid, i have been used and tricked and i just need to find my way out of it. and to be honest im not sure i can deal with IT anymore. I think it just wasn't meant to happen. Im happy spending my life as bored retail worker, it's ok. i just dont wat to pay the loan. i did al the hard work, so why sould i? i'm sure i would have found the whole course cheapper elsewhere if meant to pay for it? :(((((

    this sucks....
     
    Certifications: mcdst, mcsa, mcse
  18. strawberry

    strawberry Bit Poster

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    eeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
    every1 here is blaming themselves or others 4 getting conned and there seems 2 b no way out........i think i'm gonna go mad after reading all this....i read every1's comments 'cas i'm in the sae boat.... :( the only thing i've learned 4om all this experience is not 2 believe any1 so quickly and how stupid was i 2 b this dump...n i've met some every gud frnds over this course....abt a month a go i had given up on FM and found a new job :) n had made a decision 2 pay bk my loan but now after reading this it has put my hopes up 2 FIGHT BACK FM needs 2 learn a lesson....
     
  19. natt

    natt Bit Poster

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    the other thing i ddn't believe i mentioned is that they got me t bring in the guarantor-my boyfriend-and the loan was taken in his name. to be honest if it wa my 5 grand i would probably just give up. but because it is his money i have to, justhave to find my way out of it. the contract clearly says that if i complete all my exams, they will cover the cost of training. i have emails from them stating the money will be transferred into his account. but trouble is nothing, absolutely nothing came out of it except my man paying the loan so far and me not being able to give this money back to him.

    and yes, i realise u all had enough of reading it but trust me, there re many people just like me who actually worked hard to finish this course and not only got nothing out of it but also a big debt.

    about the time we all knew there was some help we could get? cos i hope there is....
     
    Certifications: mcdst, mcsa, mcse
  20. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Given that fact, and given the fact that we still don't have 100% wording on the actual terms of the contract, I would say that your chances of getting out of a loan for something that you have completed are pretty much zero.

    What Zeb and Dmarsh have said is true, but if it is the case that FM have gone out of business then the best that you can probably hope for is to be put on the list of creditors.

    I agree with Zeb that you have put more thought into this than most of the one-off posters who just pop up to say that they were scammed then wait for someone else to do all the leg work, so I wish you well.

    But you my have to chalk this up to experience and move on. You can't take a company that doesn't exist to court...
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD

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