For People Who Are Thinking Of Signing With A Training Provider...

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by steevyp, Nov 18, 2010.

  1. dmarsh
    Honorary Member 500 Likes Award

    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

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    To me the TP term as used by many on the forum is meaningless, I propose that we need better terminology :-

    Professional Training Companies - Companies that offer their services to large corporations for their training needs, they typically sell one week courses for 1500-2k pounds.

    These include Global Knowledge, Learning Tree, QA Training, etc. There are also many good smaller companies.

    HE Colleges and Universities - These can offer full-time courses, part-time courses, evening courses and distance learning. Do not confuse some of the 'online degree' rubbish that comes from the US, or fake UK universities run from PO Boxes, I'm talking proper UK institutions that are government regulated.

    They often run A+/N+, Cisco Academy, MCSA/MCITP style adult evening courses at reasonable prices. There is also The Open University.

    Training Solutions Vendors - Traditional CBT Vendors, online e-learning, test sims, other training aids etc. Some online vendors practices can be a little dubious, reselling others content and over charging etc.

    Some traditional CBT software vendors can be pretty good value (CBT Nuggets, Lynda, VTC, etc).

    Training Providers - Places that offer large package deals typically 3-10k, they often employ salespeole and give them misleading names like 'Training advisor/Career coach', they often use credit agencies to extract large amounts of cash from people who obviously don't have it, they often offer job guarantees, recruitment services (which they also profit from), they tend to offer bootcamp or 'zero to hero' style offerings which result in high drop-out rates, they can use restrictive practices like poor content, bad training schedules, testing criteria/barriers/rationing, unrealistic timescales or deadlines, poor support, etc.

    Places like Advent, look around the forums, its all been said a million times...


    Self Study - Explains itself, buy your own book from amazon, read it, do some practice stuff in a lab, possibly buy a CBT or Test engine simulator, book exam with Test centre. Typical cost 150 all in per exam.

    To me Firebrand sit in the middle between a professional training company and a Training Provider, they have some very pushy marketing and sales tactics. They also offer bootcamp and cram style courses. Prices also tend to be pretty high.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2010
  2. SimonD
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    SimonD Terabyte Poster

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    You see (now that I am sober-ish) I can honestly say that I have never experienced this pushy marketing and sales tactics things from Firebrand, I have dealt with the same salesman throught my entire experiences with Firebrand (actually it was still the same sales man when it was The Training Camp). I may speak to Duncan every few months, he will call up to see if I am ready to book any courses and if I am I will book them, if I am still in the middle of a contract I will advise him to call me back in 3 - 6 months, he does that and that's what I like about him (no pushyness, when I want to book something I will).

    As far as the bootcamp is concerned, I love it because it means I don't have to commute anywhere and as much as I love my son (and I love him lots) I don't have to worry about where my study time is going to fit in when I get home. Now I admit that there can be some people who fall through the gaps when it comes to some of these courses (where it's obvious that they shouldn't be on them) but in the whole the guys on the courses all generally pass (maybe on the first or 3rd attempt).

    As far as prices go, I tend to think that they are actually pretty much spot on with other course providers. Have you actually taken the time to price up similar courses with other Training Providers?? I did, this year in fact. I spoke with Global Knowledge about the prices of their MCITP EA courses and there wasn't a great deal in it (yes GK were slightly cheaper by about £750 at the time) but upon closer examinations I discovered that whilst GK were cheaper, their courses didn't cover the cost of the exams and I would still have been commuting. Factor in the accommodation and food in the Firebrand training (as well as the cost of the actual exams) and you find out that actually Firebrand aren't that out of line when it comes to costs.

    Trust me when I tell you that I do my due diligence, I don't actually sit back and listen to one salesman, I go out and check out a lot of other providers and if I find someone offering a much better deal then obviously I will take that (as an aside, I have already spoken briefly with a training provider about their CCNA offering which I will be taking up next year and no it's not Firebrand).

    The one thing I would honestly suggest people take into account when it comes to training providers is actually what's on offer, does it suit your needs and is it (in your opinion) worth the money. If you can answer yes to those questions then that provider is right for you.
     
    Certifications: CNA | CNE | CCNA | MCP | MCP+I | MCSE NT4 | MCSA 2003 | Security+ | MCSA:S 2003 | MCSE:S 2003 | MCTS:SCCM 2007 | MCTS:Win 7 | MCITP:EDA7 | MCITP:SA | MCITP:EA | MCTS:Hyper-V | VCP 4 | ITIL v3 Foundation | VCP 5 DCV | VCP 5 Cloud | VCP6 NV | VCP6 DCV | VCAP 5.5 DCA
  3. billyr

    billyr Kilobyte Poster

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  4. steevyp

    steevyp Bit Poster

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    excellent point :clap
     
    WIP: CompTIA A+ (220-701 & 220-702)
  5. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Anyone we know?

    :tune






    :biggrin
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  6. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    yup, you! :twisted:

    It comes and goes, some people do it then others seem to take over. Its like those who support SS become fanatics, and anything other than SS is heresy.

    I'm not saying its not the cheapest option, and I'm not saying its not necessarily the best. Hell, I'm not even saying that its not a good idea to try it as a first resort (or at least consider it).

    What I am saying, is that sometimes its not an appropriate response to the query, or an appropriate suggestion for the person based on the information that has been supplied. It doesnt take much to give the scenario some genuine thought, before responding.
     
    Certifications: ITIL Foundation; MCTS: Visual Studio Team Foundation Server 2010, Administration
    WIP: None at present
  7. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Ah, so very much not true mate - I'm surprised at you.
    If you have read my posts on the subject, you'll see me very much on the fence; in fact, I don't think I've ever said 'self study'.

    I have used self study, a training provider, and a professional training company (or whatever we're calling them) myself, so I consider myself fairly balanced.

    When I'm upright, that is...

    :biggrin
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  8. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    I know, just messin!
     
    Certifications: ITIL Foundation; MCTS: Visual Studio Team Foundation Server 2010, Administration
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  9. dmarsh
    Honorary Member 500 Likes Award

    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

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    Well for a start they don't even publish prices on their website, you have to register your phone number so a sales guy can give you the hard sell. This is not a good start for me.

    Then they tried to sell me courses for certifications I already had, basically the sales guy punted anything he could think of at me, can't remember exact details but A+/N+ were at least a grand each probably two, definitely not a good deal compared to college offerings.

    Bootcamps are not entirely a bad idea for the right people I agree, just they tend to get misused.

    I saw one place once where for like 6k you could take unlimited weekend bootcamps for a year, seemed like a good idea for a motivated individual to improve. However it is getting dangerously close to TP teritory so it would depend on the details.

    I think even the Professional Training companies offer voucher pack schemes where departments get a discount by buying a pack of training vouchers which they can them distribute amongst their staff over the year.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2010
  10. SimonD
    Honorary Member

    SimonD Terabyte Poster

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    Please don't tell me you actually put your details in there?? Do what I do, simply put in any spurious crap, as long as it looks like a telephone number and email address it shows you the prices.
     
    Certifications: CNA | CNE | CCNA | MCP | MCP+I | MCSE NT4 | MCSA 2003 | Security+ | MCSA:S 2003 | MCSE:S 2003 | MCTS:SCCM 2007 | MCTS:Win 7 | MCITP:EDA7 | MCITP:SA | MCITP:EA | MCTS:Hyper-V | VCP 4 | ITIL v3 Foundation | VCP 5 DCV | VCP 5 Cloud | VCP6 NV | VCP6 DCV | VCAP 5.5 DCA

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