FDM training and Jobs

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by han.net, Jan 18, 2011.

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  1. SimonD
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    SimonD Terabyte Poster

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    Han, please PLEASE listen.

    I am an IT Professional and have been for 14 years now, as you can see from my professional qualifications you can tell that I have some experience where certifications go. With that in mind please understand what I am about to tell you and understand that this comes from those 14 years of IT experience (coupled with the 10 years of military experience before I moved into IT).

    Having any form of certification means absolutely nothing if that certification isn't used to backup your experience, the certification alone isn't worth the paper it's written on if you can't backup it up with years of experience. What you actually do is harm the certification path because if\when you **** up (and trust me, with only 6 months in the IT arena you still have plenty of time to **** up) not only do you look bad but you also make the certification look bad because at that point everyone involved with you with regards to clearing that ****up up will look at the certification and say that obviously it doesn't work because you're proof of that.

    As far as passing the CCNA is concerned, all it actually shows is you can pass an exam, it doesn't actually tell us bugger all about your capabilities when it comes down to it, that's what the job details on your CV are about, it's the ability to talk about your previous roleS is about, having been in IT for 6 months and gained the CCNA just tells me not to hire you, and honestly I have been in the position to hire and fire plenty of people.

    A number of people have now given you the low down on these companies who offer you x y & z if you pay them to go on a course but at the end of the day you are the only person who can actually decide what to do, if I were in your shoes??? walk away very fast and tell them thanks, but no thanks.

    Now you have two options left.

    1. Thank everyone who has offered you some excellent advice, take it on board and lose the CCNA certification off your CV for a couple more years and actually gain the experience required for the certification.

    or

    2. Ignore all the combined years of experience telling you what actually happens in the real world rather than the cloud cookoo one you seem to live in and just go and blow a small fortune on a course that really, you didn't need to do and doesn't actually help you out in any way shape or form.

    Over to you.
     
    Certifications: CNA | CNE | CCNA | MCP | MCP+I | MCSE NT4 | MCSA 2003 | Security+ | MCSA:S 2003 | MCSE:S 2003 | MCTS:SCCM 2007 | MCTS:Win 7 | MCITP:EDA7 | MCITP:SA | MCITP:EA | MCTS:Hyper-V | VCP 4 | ITIL v3 Foundation | VCP 5 DCV | VCP 5 Cloud | VCP6 NV | VCP6 DCV | VCAP 5.5 DCA
  2. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    You have to remember the first rule when dealing with any kind of agency is that they are basically in it for themselves, not for you. That doesn't actually make them evil, it's just business. Some of them do a better job than others, and some are more ethical than others. But generally they make money from what they do.

    I haven't had anything to do with FDM, but from what others (including you) have said, it sounds as if they provide some sort of training and put you into some kind of placement whilst doing it. It also says that you are tied into this placement (and probably into completing the training) or you have to fork out a great deal of money.

    So, you have to ask yourself a couple of questions.

    What sort of employer is going to welcome droves of trainees being referred to them?
    What are the chances of the employer being local/convenient?
    What sort of salary will I be looking at?
    What are my chances of completing the training?
    What is the incentive for FDM to offer me free training and a job?

    It seems to me that the odds are that you will find that the placement sucks so bad that you won't stick it. Or you'll realise you can't live off a trainees salary. Or the training will be dire and there will be all kinds of obstacles to prevent you from completing it.

    I'd say the best way for FDM to make money is to have all their trainees drop out and end up owing them lots of money for something they never provided. Wouldn't be their fault, would it? Then you end up with a big black mark on your CV and a big red one on your bank statement.

    I could be completely wrong - but I have never seen one of these 'buy yourself a job' schemes that has worked out well for anyone. Because that's essentially what it is, it's dressed up a little differently than usual but it looks just like a version of a 'sign up with us and we promise you a job' scheme. People always think they've found a clever way to beat finding a job the traditional 'hard' way, but it never occurs to them that if it was that simple then everyone would have done it by now and everyone in the country would be happily employed.

    Statistics say different.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  3. han.net

    han.net Nibble Poster

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    Simon,

    i am so grateful to your honest and professional advice, and appreciate your long experience , and I can digest all the aspects that you mentioned here . You said that you would nt hire me and thats according to my CCNa and 6 months experience. I m fully aware of what most of the emplyers think when they come across my CV , and this is one of reasons why I m trying to find an alternative soloution . If you think FDM is not the right one then please advise on how overcome this aspect in my career . Bare in mind that I resigned my position in my previous company after having an issue with the owner of the company , and his attitude with me . NOT because I did something wrong or was not able to deliver the service which matchs my position.

    kind regards
     
  4. han.net

    han.net Nibble Poster

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    Thank you very much for your reply , and I can answer of your poits you highited , and the rest would be in my previous reply .


    The catch is not with salary, as they offer 21-23 K for the first year and then 25-27 K . I am trying to get myself another opened chance to overcome my CV thing , and this why I m choosing them , and also , I am not saying that I am aceepting the offer , but to answer the rest of your points I have to meet them and discover more things .

    Regards
     
  5. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    You have already been advised what to do in regards to applying for jobs. Take the CCNA of your cv and start applying for jobs that are at your experience level. No one steps into a networking job as their first IT job regardless of their certifications or qualifications, no IT manager or network manager in their right mind will hire someone with little or no experience.

    You need to start at the bottom like everyone else and work your way up. get some entry level certifications that show your experience level like A+,N+ and MCDST and go no further until you have some good experience to back up later certs.

    Now I haven't been in IT asl ong as Simon or Michael or anyone else that has offered the advice you have gotten but what they have said is 100% correct.

    Think of this scenario:- just because you have a driving licence does that mean you will get a job as touring car driver? no it doesn't infact the team bosses would laugh at you and this is the same for being over qualified or over certified when wanting to get into IT.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  6. Waria Ahmed

    Waria Ahmed Byte Poster

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    Han,

    A couple of years ago, when I was looking for development positions, I was approached by FDM. I booked an interview and did some research about them prior to turning up.

    The jist of the information I gathered is they provide you with training then you are contracted to them for 24 months. In those 24 months, they will send you on a 3 week contract in Newcastle, be unemployed for a couple of months another 1 month contract in Dubai etc etc etc.

    The whole point of it is to make you suicidal and make you quit and pay them £20k.

    I didnt even bother turning up to the interview and they did not even contact me. I dont even think its a interview to be honest, more like a open day.

    Secondly, If i was in your shoes. I would change my CV to "currently preparing for a CCNA" and take the certification out. Atleast it shows you like taking initiative, have some prior knowledge and are keen to learn. Would help more than taking it completely out imo.

    Hope that helps
     
    Certifications: See Signature
    WIP: MCITP: Enterprise Administrator
  7. han.net

    han.net Nibble Poster

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    Thanks again to everyone for their advice , and will take them into action . I will need to mention another thing which another option , but Im afarid I have to go to work now . I will follow up this evening , so please stay tunned !

    Many thanks
     
  8. zet

    zet Byte Poster

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    Just to chime in, I was also approached by the FDM group and I was also interviewing with another company that has a similar business model. Basically, and this was what I found out, you sign a two year contract with them and you're bound to that contract. You are provided with 3 months training and then a 2 year placement - the catch being you will have to relocate at a moments notice to anywhere they place you. If you break that contract you owe them I believe 17k or 19k (cant quite recall the exact figure).

    Pros:

    - free training (not paid, however)
    - a job
    - money

    Cons:

    - 2 year contract with a 17k-19k fine if broken
    - have to relocate to anywhere they place you.

    How to overcome this? Well, if you have a good CV then keep applying for jobs. (totaljobs cwjobs jobsite are a few that I used)..I think I applied for around 1,000+ jobs before I landed my first role!
     
    Certifications: BSc, MSc, A+
  9. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    What I am saying is this: if you want to look for another job, and you see a Cisco admin job, go ahead and apply for it, and leave your CCNA on your CV. But for most entry-level jobs (requiring less than a year of IT experience), Cisco administration isn't a part of the job description; for these jobs, leave the CCNA off your CV. You'll gain a lot more traction in the marketplace that way.

    For the record, this mindset of crafting your CV to match your employers requirements is true for ANYONE. I'm not saying to be dishonest about what you can do or have done... I'm saying that you should let your CV sell you as the best candidate for that particular job. For a SQL admin job, include stuff on your CV that highlights your SQL admin experience. For a computer repair tech job, include stuff on your CV that highlights your computer repair skills. By the same token, you don't need to pile on a bunch of stuff that is absolutely irrelevant to the position. For example, if you're applying for a Windows server admin position, the employer won't likely care that you know how to program in .NET (and in fact, might cause him to start wondering why the heck a programmer is applying for a Windows server admin position in the first place!).

    As far as training schemes are concerned, I wouldn't recommend that ANYONE leave their job in order to attend a training course, even if promises of employment are dangled in front of you in an attempt to make you all starry-eyed. Take a look on these forums, and you'll see plenty of tales filled with heartache and loss regarding these training providers who offer guaranteed employment. Is it possible that everything could work out OK? Sure, it could. But considering the number of negative experiences, is it worth the risk? Only you can answer that. The best we can do is show you the evidence we've seen and let you decide for yourself.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2011
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  10. han.net

    han.net Nibble Poster

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    Right , This discussion is of the options available to me would led me to mention another opportunity to me , and me only .
    I have an employer who is a doctor, wanted to run a kind of mini hospital, and offered me to do the MCITP course and then become the IT person to design and build the IT infrstructe for his business. He would need about 30 clients machines , in addition to the servers . That employer does not come from an IT or business background, as I mentioned earlier . It looks as a brilliant chance to me , however I have some concerns as he might don’t know what he is talking or offering . Any ideas?
    Regards
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2011
  11. Waria Ahmed

    Waria Ahmed Byte Poster

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    Sorry I didn't even understand that?
     
    Certifications: See Signature
    WIP: MCITP: Enterprise Administrator
  12. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    I also didn't understand. A doctor wants you to build an IT infrastructure..do you mean network?

    I am confused.

    Han.net you can go for this training place if you like but if you do a search on this forum you will see how many schemes like this there are and how many people have been ripped of or had a bad experience. If you are not going to listen to what people are saying then why ask the question?
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  13. zet

    zet Byte Poster

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    What han is saying he has another opportunity from a potential employer (a doctor) who has not come from an IT background. This employer will allow han to get the MCITP cert and then design/build this guys network of about 30 client machines.

    Hans concern is that because this doctor does not come from an IT background so he may not pay him adequately. At least that's what I think he is saying :P
     
    Certifications: BSc, MSc, A+
  14. han.net

    han.net Nibble Poster

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    Thats 99% correct, and sorry for not being clear enough in my post .

    This potential employer has decided to build his own clinic which will work for the NHS in their new coming scheme . The Building is still under constructions and the Employer ( the doctor ) wanted to hire me to build and design the IT department including clients . The new mini hospital or clinic will have 2 operating theatres and about 25 employees with a pc each .

    The employer does not come from an IT or business background, and I don’t know much about servers at the moment . My concern is that he is not an expert and I don’t have currently the skills and experience to do that , and if having the MCITP with all my bits and pieces would be enough to do the job at a very good level .
    Should I go for it ?

    Hope thats clear now
     
  15. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    And what do you believe is adequate pay?

    Do you realise that the first wages people get in IT are usually 13 - 18k anything above that is extremley lucky.

    If I Was the Doctor I Would be wanting to hire a proper Network professional not someone who was looking for their first step into IT.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2011
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  16. han.net

    han.net Nibble Poster

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    I did not mention by any chance the payment , and explained my concern if his offer would realastic and I would be able to do the job or not .

    talking about the pay , I had 20 K in my previous job , and I beleive its going to be around that figure or bit more .
     
  17. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    I dont not know if you would be able to do it.

    If you can answer yes to all these questions then you may be able to.

    Can you setup a network?
    Can you use and manage Active directory?
    Can you setup network installations of operating systems?
    Can you use testing tools to check the networks stability?
    Do you have plan for how the network will work and how the systems within that network are placed within the doctors?
    Do you have backup plans?

    There are many more questions that you need to ask yourself but those ones above should give you an idea of what they are.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  18. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    Then you would be biting off more than you can chew.
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  19. han.net

    han.net Nibble Poster

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    I have A+, CCNA , experience as IT technician of one year , plus 6 months experience working in a hosting company ( duties mentioned in an earlier post )
    Now to your questions :
    Yes I can set up a network , sombody has ccna then thats for sure .
    No , I cant manage Active directory and this is one of reasons why Im doing the MCITP
    No I have not done this before , but the Client PC would have windows 7 already installed .
    Do you mean physical tools ? or software tool
    Yes , I have a drafft plan
    I would consider , Raid witin the server , and may consider a backup server and off site too
     
  20. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    you will need both physical devices and software tools to test a network but as Bluerinse has pointed out you have said you have little server experience if that is the case then you will likely struggle to do this without someone more experienced helping you.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?

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