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Do you know http://www.bcoc.co.uk

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by rabmerab, Mar 21, 2010.

  1. rabmerab

    rabmerab Bit Poster

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    I been to this training centre (see link bellow) and they got so many people in their class.
    They come on second in the Google’s search list when you type ” MCP training in London”.
    What I am trying to say, it that they seem professional.

    They got very clear website. The price and the course are clearly stated. However, I though any company has to put ( at the button usually) their VAT registration number. Buy the way do they have by law to write it down .

    Still I want to hear from people who did use the training centre or know some who did and what do they think about it.
    Your input will be appreciated.

    http://www.bcoc.co.uk/mcse_mcp/trai...courses.aspx?gclid=CJXe24XlyqACFQs-lAodRRqDaQ
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2010
  2. westernkings

    westernkings Gigabyte Poster

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    Rab,

    How many times do we have to tell you that a training provider is just going to take your money for the most part? Listen to what I am about to say very very carefully. A TRAINING PROVIDER IS LIKELY JUST GOING TO GIVE YOU THE BOOKS TO DO THE EXAM YOUR SELF AT 50x THE PRICE!! STOP LOOKING FOR AN EASY WAY.

    Personally, looking at your posts, I would prefer that you end up wasting a fortune on these things just to learn your lesson.

    Ciao.
     
    Certifications: MCITP:VA, MCITP:EA, MCDST, MCTS, MCITP:EST7, MCITP:SA, PRINCE2, ITILv3
  3. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    what he said ^

    A TP will charge you a lot of money for giving you some books and possibly 24 hour support BUT the people you get support from are just call centre staff and are probably ex students or current students of the TP they will hardley be qualified.

    If you really want to do a course then look at a college as you will know that the people teaching you are qualified.

    That being said why not just get the books yourself and study on your own then when you are ready book the exams? why waste all that money when you can do it for 2 3rds cheaper by self study.

    And to add YOU SHOULD NOT BE DOING THE MCSE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT EXPERIENCED ENOUGH IT WILL MAKE YOUR JOB SEARCH HARDER WHICH YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD THIS BEFORE
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  4. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    Firstly, this post makes no mention of the MCSE, simply MCP (which covers a whole host of exams including, I believe, the much pushed (by this very forum) MCDST), so stop busting his balls over the MCSE.

    (Edit: Stand corrected, the link refers to the MCSE. Fair enough, but my further points still stand.)

    Equally, once you have advised not to do the MCSE (for legitimate reasons), if the poster chooses to ignore you and continue on that path. Leave them be. Offer them the subsequent help they want, or ignore their posts altogether.

    Secondly, it really gets my goat up that certain members on this forum tar all TP's with the same brush.

    Company X is a Training Provider
    Company X is a rip off.
    Ergo, All Training Providers are ripoffs

    This logic does not hold. Not all TP's are ripoffs. Sure they are more expensive than self study, sure you can advise self study over a TP in terms of cost. Sure you can espouse caution when selecting a TP (if thats the route the poster wishes to take), but dont lambast all TP's with the same reputation.

    Just because you dont want to use a TP, dont try to force that choice on all members who come here. Instead, once they have made the choice (and you have offered the alternative of SS), either move on and help them out, or p*ss off and let others help out. Your obviously hostile responses (the pair of you) do not help anyone.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
    Certifications: ITIL Foundation; MCTS: Visual Studio Team Foundation Server 2010, Administration
    WIP: None at present
  5. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

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    I have no experience of that company, but from taking a quick look at it, it looks like a bootcamp style course. They are designed for people who already have plenty of experience and want to pass the certs quickly. I doubt they market it that way as it's in their interests to get as many people to do the courses as possible, not be particularly fussy about the suitability of the candidates.

    They may be a good training company, but that doesn't take away from the fact that if you have no prior experience, then you shouldn't be trying to gain a high end certification like the MCSE.

    We'll hopefully be hiring here soon (someone with a year to 18months of on the job experience) and I can guarantee one thing for absolute certain. Any applications by paper MCSE's will hit the bin so quick, you'll miss it. A paper MCSE is what you would be if you went on this course and passed ie somone with the qualifications but no experience to back it up.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCP, MCDST, MCSA 2K3, MCTS, MOS, MTA, MCT, MCITP:EDST7, MCSA W7, Citrix CCA, ITIL Foundation
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  6. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    Point noted Fergal but the OP keeps asking the same questions and he keeps getting the same responses. Fair enough if he doesn't want to listen but he doesn't have to keep posting the same questions either.

    Yes not all TPs are bad but it is good advice to let people know that they can save money by self study and that the main consensus seems to be that it is better in the long run to do self study since you can't rip yourself off.

    I usually say that if someone does need class room based study then use a college as you know that they are well established and the tutors will know what they are doing and that you have proper support if you need it.

    But yep maybe I come across as bashing TPs all the time but it's only from what I have learned on here and elsehwhere that I do.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  7. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

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    I totally agree with that and do thing people are far to quick to automatically assume that training providers are a rip off etc... There are plenty that use some very dodgy sales tactics and make lots of false promises, but are some good legit ones out there also.

    I have self-studied pretty much all my qualifications apart from one were I used an evening class as well (70-291), but I wouldn't be adverse to using a bootcamp in the future if I could afford it or my company would pay for it. I quite like the idea of compressing the whole process into a few days as long periods on one topic can become a bit tedious. :)
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCP, MCDST, MCSA 2K3, MCTS, MOS, MTA, MCT, MCITP:EDST7, MCSA W7, Citrix CCA, ITIL Foundation
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  8. westernkings

    westernkings Gigabyte Poster

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    Fergal, you seem to be confusing this gentleman with someone asking for advice. Please refer to his previous posts, he is looking for nothing more than a quick way into IT. My feelings personally, don't ask for advice if you have no intention of listening.

    And, as hostile as our responses may be, I think it takes a better person to take the rope away than it does to sit there saying "It's his choice to hang himself"

    Food for thought.

    Maybe Fergal, you could do the community a huge huge favour, along with Rab here and get a quick post knocked up that we can sticky, with a list of a LOT of reputable TPs. That way, we can have a large sticky at the top with RECOMMENDED Training Providers. Thus giving them the best possible chance of finding a decent one.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
    Certifications: MCITP:VA, MCITP:EA, MCDST, MCTS, MCITP:EST7, MCITP:SA, PRINCE2, ITILv3
  9. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    If you have reached that conclusion, then dont post in his threads. If you think hes a lost cause, dont contribute to his posts with openly hostile responses. That way, either everyone will ignore him and he will go away, or people who are willing to help him will post in the thread. Either way, you arent wasting your effort.

    Its not your time, its not your money. You have offered an opinion (in a previous post) and hes ignored it. Suck it up and move on, he obviously doesnt want to hear your response, so let it lie.

    As for your (oh so sarcastic) suggestion, I dont actually know ALL of them. I do, however know that many people (even, shock horror, well respected members of the forum) have used TP's in the past, and found them to be quite good, nay, even excellent in some cases.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
    Certifications: ITIL Foundation; MCTS: Visual Studio Team Foundation Server 2010, Administration
    WIP: None at present
  10. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    I know that Phoenix at one point considered using BCOC (although it was a few years back), although I dont know if he ever went through with it, perhaps if he sees this thread, he can offer any insight into his ultimate decision and reasoning for that decision.
     
    Certifications: ITIL Foundation; MCTS: Visual Studio Team Foundation Server 2010, Administration
    WIP: None at present
  11. westernkings

    westernkings Gigabyte Poster

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    You don't have to know all Fergal. I do not know any TP's that do anything more than give you the books and a phone number for MS courses. You do know of them though. So do some good, avoid these threads even starting by providing a list of TPs you know that will help these people out. Can't argue with the benefit that will bring the forum.

    That cuts out any thread starting by having a quality controlled list of TPs, forum members have knowledge of. Meaning we won't have to reiterate the same message over and over again.

    And as for pointless posts, I didn't see you providing him with a TP that could help him.

    I'll do it instead.

    Here you go RAB, instead of forking out 5k on a TP, why not attend a course at college to gain the MCSE?

    http://www.bickenhallcollege.co.uk/mcse_mcp/training_courses_london/mcse_certification_courses.aspx

    It's about half the price of a TP.

    Ciao.
     
    Certifications: MCITP:VA, MCITP:EA, MCDST, MCTS, MCITP:EST7, MCITP:SA, PRINCE2, ITILv3
  12. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    Hand bags time :D:twisted:

    reminds me of The Battle of Pearl Harbour, re-enacted for us now by the women of Barley Townswomen's Guild.
     

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    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  13. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    TP's change. Such a list actually ends up being a liability for CF, since if we were to have a sticky that recommends a TP and they have become a ripoff since then, CF could be liable.

    Instead, I have already gone one better.
     
    Certifications: ITIL Foundation; MCTS: Visual Studio Team Foundation Server 2010, Administration
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  14. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

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    I do know of at least one that does more than that. A local college where I used to do part-time lecturing at. We provided training that was very cheap compared to some of the more well known providers. (eg an MCDST course was about £400 quid including exam vouchers). It wasn't a rip off, but it's still a training provider.

    This is why it's not a good idea to tar all TP's with the same brush. Just because it's a college doesn't mean it's not a TP.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCP, MCDST, MCSA 2K3, MCTS, MOS, MTA, MCT, MCITP:EDST7, MCSA W7, Citrix CCA, ITIL Foundation
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  15. talk2alain

    talk2alain New Member

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    There are two main types of training providers; those that provide hands-on, tutor led trainings, and those that provde online trainings/home study.
    Depends on your requirements you can choose one.
    I would personly recommend to take the one that provides a hands-on, tutor led trainings as the tutor will explain to you in details how things work in real life, you have a chance to study on actual servers, configuring the network etc. Will have real practical experience. All tutors are normally MCTs Microsoft certified trainers and have a really good knowledge that you can take out with you.
    Self study will take you ages to acheive your goal, sometimes years. I know people who selfstudied simple CCNA for one-two years.
    Comon, if you are really commited and passionate about IT, just invest some money in a good course and you ll have much more knowledge that those who selfstudied, and you ll get there quicker.
    Plus, on top of the hands-on training they ll give you the books and CDs to study and practise at home. You are not losing out, believe me. I've done myself and I am very glad I did.
    Another thing, to have a VAT number on a website is not a requirement, but the company reg number is. Does google have VAT number somewhere on their website. Common, forget it. You want to find if the company is legite, just call them, or pop in and talk to them, talk to the tutors, talk to directors.

    Thank you

    Alain
     
  16. supernova

    supernova Gigabyte Poster

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    Bad example if you buy advertising ie adwords then, yes they actually do! you pay VAT on UKadwords accounts and VAT registered businesses can claim it back. It does get confusing because Google is in fact registered in Ireland (VAT No IE6388047V). Anyway i get what your trying to say.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
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  17. supernova

    supernova Gigabyte Poster

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    Colleges are good i have no problems with them, I think there good , I still have a issues with people getting MCSEs when they shouldn't :D

    Anyway watch out for phony colleges! there are many TPs claiming to be colleges.
     
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  18. rabmerab

    rabmerab Bit Poster

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    Hello every one
    Things seem very hot and tense here.
    Sorry folks, it was just a innocent question.
    I did just a asked a very simple question and instead of getting a simple answer like I been there and it is not good or I haven’t got clue, some are jumping to conclusion and saying I want to find an easy way to get in the IT.
    I guess most of you are in the IT industry and surrounded by colleague and your human network is very wide. You must know a lot about training.
    I though TP are interesting in that side too. There are many students and some of them must be working in the IT industry already. So learning with group of people in more beneficial then having a book as the only friend you got.
    That particular TP, offer course on Saturday which good for some one working full time.
    I am not rich so I am not gonna throw my money away but I think Microsoft certificate or other world wide recognize certificate doesn’t come cheap.
     
  19. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    It comes as cheap as paying for the exams and taking them. If you know the subject matter, then you can pass... and you don't need to pay thousands for a classroom training course to learn that.

    If the money is burning a hole in your pocket, by all means, go buy some classroom training. The decision is yours.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
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  20. supernova

    supernova Gigabyte Poster

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    say two books , buy second hand if you like, plus exam fee for each exam for self study, against a lot of money for a tp. Colleges should also hardly cost anything not 1000's.

    Yes i have use a TP before never again! .......... i saved a fortune in self study! Alain's comment about it been slow is BS I decide how fast or slow i go. The fact i take my time is because i choose to do things right for my career.

    I am about to take holiday leave soon where i will revise and take i exam with in a few weeks, how can i do that, I have been using the product at work for over 6 months and been using previous versions for years.

    Only because you keep on mentioning MCSE, which isn't going to help you to enter IT. Many people think they can get a MCSE and enter IT straight in to a system admins position .... its not going to happen

    If you had said what certs should i look at to get into IT or how should i study A+, N+ or MCDST you would have got a better response.


    you can also self study in groups and have meet ups.

    When the time is right i may do the CISCO courses at my local college, so i have access to equipment i also feel like meeting people studying as well. I certainly wouldn't pay £3000-5000 for a TP.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2010
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