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Depressing job hunting...

Discussion in 'Employment & Jobs' started by twizzle, Mar 3, 2006.

  1. twizzle

    twizzle Gigabyte Poster

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    I've been looking at sites such as www.monster.co.uk and www.totaljobs.com and am getting depressed about ever finding work in IT. See im more of a hands on hardware tech, i have city and guilds in electronics, the comptia a+ and WIP is the Net+ cert. I have experience in building pcs, upgrading, installing OS's, various testing methods etc etc blah blah blah...... and im unemployed (didnt like last job as PAT).

    So why am i getting depressed??? well all these job sites seem to have very little Hardware tech type posistions, they mainly have Web desginers, Software developers, programmers etc... And most of these specify degrees, Computer science certs or else 3 to 5 years experience.
    What has happened to the Hardware side of IT... has it all gone to the Apps??? if so i'll never get a job as im rubbish at scripting and programming. Hell i'd settle for a desk support role if i could find one that i fit the descrition for...

    Ok i know i could get agency work but that wouldnt be in IT it be basic panel wiring or PCB production line work and believe me im sick of that.... I'm trying to get into IT, I've got some skills for it and some certs and am working towards more... But i need that one chance.. that "we'll give this bloke a chance" type job, but all i can see is that i have no chance as im a Hardware tech and not a developer of software or programmer.

    So any ideas guys? What can i do in a short space of time to improve my chances?? are there any sites out there for hardware jobs? My CV is upto date and changed to reflect more IT skills, im doin 1 cert and will follow it with another. Theres little chance of me getting volunteer job in my area (even the g/f brother hasnt got enough work for me, and he runs his own shop!!) SO THIS IS A BIG CRY FOR HELP!!!!
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+, N+, MS 70-271, 70-272
    WIP: Being a BILB,
  2. simongrahamuk
    Honorary Member

    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

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    As hard as it may seem, the best advice that I can give to you is to not give up.

    If IT is your passion then keep trying to get into it. You may have to take other positions to pay the bills, but keep at it.

    I believe that the problem nowadays is the lack of what used to be 'entry-level' positions. The ones that actually involved putting the hardware into the PC. As technilogy has moved on, so have many of the components, motherboards with everything embedded onto them reduce the need for people to fit multiple parts. These days it is almost just as cheap (depending on what it's used for) to buy a prebuilt PC from a store with three years warranty, than it is to build your own. Again, extended warranties have reduced the need for 'ground level' hardware people.

    To be involved in IT these days you have to be something of a 'Jack of all trades' and be able to apply yourself to a a wide variety of tasks, which once would have been considered the jobs of 3 or 4 people. That's just the unfortunate way that the market has gone, and its sad to say that it most probably won't go back.

    8)
     
  3. Nelix
    Honorary Member

    Nelix Gigabyte Poster

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    I haven't posted on here for a while, hello everyone!!!! :D

    You could try the following websites, I found these quiet good when I was looking for work

    www.jobsite.co.uk
    www.jobserve.co.uk

    My first job was sitting and looking at spreadsheets all day in excel on a temp contract, however, fortunate for me I was sitting next to the IT department (It was an open plan office) and kept asking them the odd question regarding networks, not too much mind otherwise they think your a busy body. I also had to take a day off to sit an exam and I made a point of making sure they knew what the exam was (asking for the time off whilst in ear shot of the IT guys). The contract ended and I went to work on a helpdesk, whilst there I received an email from my previous employer asking if I would be interested in a temp position in the IT department, I jumped at the chance even though I was leaving a permanent job for a temp one. I sat a few more exams, proved myself to be valuable to them and the position got made permanent, I was there for almost 3 years, now I have moved on to bigger and better things....Still in IT though.

    I might have just been lucky, don't give up looking, keep at it and a job will come along eventually, in the meantime stick a postcard in a few shop windows offering your services to help with the financial side of things.

    Hope this helps
     
    Certifications: A+, 70-210, 70-290, 70-291
    WIP: 70-294
  4. unemployedstudent

    unemployedstudent Byte Poster

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    I am in a similar position, but I have a 2.2. degree in Information Systems Analysis, I wanted to be and still want to be a consultant, but because I don't have a 2.1 I can't even apply for certain consultant roles like working for Accenture or BT.

    I thought about making myself more marketable, what could a prospective employer want, what can I do or learn about?

    I took a European Computer Driving Licence for free at a local college in Bristol with the Scout Enterprise. Passed.

    I'm taking my A+ then N+ then CCNA.

    I'm reading about Visual Basic, but I've been told it has been replaced by .Net. :blink

    Like you, I find programing difficult, to say the least, I took a class on Java whilst at Uni., but found I couldn't take it in. :(

    As for the suggestion about placing postcard in shops, er sorry not for me. :(

    I have been unemployed for 18 months, I'm frustrated too.

    I have a class 2 truck licence, I do occassional work for 3 different driving agencies, but really hate being lost all the time. :oops: I invested in a satnav for xmas and have only had 4 day jobs since, one truck didn't have a cigarette lighter so I couldn't plug my satnav in! :x I was delivering in London and got horribly lost. :ohmy


    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
     
    Certifications: BAISA(hons) Degree, ECDL.
    WIP: A+, CompTIA N+, CCNA
  5. twizzle

    twizzle Gigabyte Poster

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    Lol sounds a bit like me doin the PAT.. was driving round Norwich looking for a customers site... Called head office and luckliy one of the girls there knows the area well. Was on the hands free to her telling me, go left here, next right, over bridge etc etc for half hour till i found the place... Was gonna invest ina satnav but quit job 2 months later, as was chasing posistion at local school for thier ICT tech.
    Din get it so did Web desgin fer while but not enough contracts came in so no money.....

    Maybe im just getting too old for this (33 this year) and think that most companies im aiming at want younger college students with HNDs or Graduates........

    Ah well thats life i spose,
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+, N+, MS 70-271, 70-272
    WIP: Being a BILB,
  6. unemployedstudent

    unemployedstudent Byte Poster

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    34 is not too old, I'm 47 that not old either, I'm applying for kids jobs because I want the experience.

    Believe it or not, there is an age discrimination act and various other bits of legislation that in theory cover this, but I've never heard of anyone being prosecuted yet. :(
     
    Certifications: BAISA(hons) Degree, ECDL.
    WIP: A+, CompTIA N+, CCNA
  7. Muir

    Muir Bit Poster

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    I'm in the same position, I've been looking for about 20 months now but because of my location (a small little town in North Devon) I couldn't get anything so I decided to get a non-IT role to keep me going until my partner was ready to move. I moved to Edinburgh in November 2005 and have been seriously looking since but to no avail. I've got a HND in IT management and 2:1 (hons) degree in IT and whilst I took on my non-IT job I decided to keep update by studying for my MCAD and MCDBA certs.

    Now where I differ from you guys is that I'm looking for a programming role with a long term aim to get into project management. I'll take on helpdesk or testing to get my foot in the door but it seems that although I've got a lot of qualifications because I don't have much experience I can't get in anywhere. I'm very good at extracting the good IT points of experience I do have but still I can't get that opportunity. I have a great passion and I will not be diverted from my main goal but it does get a little disheartening when I can’t even get an interview or a phone call saying thanks but we were looking for something else. I just keep applying and hoping something will turn up and the little feedback I do receive I’m always very grateful for. I’m not looking for a ridiculous amount of money and I apply to junior roles (although most say 1-2 years exp, junior?).

    I keep myself busy by studying and setting myself projects to keep me going (I created a program to track the jobs I was applying for, as I was getting a little lost). I’m constantly changing my CV and covering letters, I’ve got a list of about 8 online agencies, which I check everyday along with the job centre and a few local job advertisers. Sometimes I get really deflated by the lack of response but I try to keep myself motivated and I keep applying for roles as I know something will turn up.

    Just keep going and I’m sure something will happen.

    P.S. I’m a young wannabe IT professional and I’m having no more luck than yourselves so I wouldn’t put too much emphasis on the age factor.
     
    Certifications: Degree, HND, MCP (305, 306, 229)
    WIP: MCDBA
  8. twizzle

    twizzle Gigabyte Poster

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    That little town wouldnt happen to be Barnstaple of Bideford by any chance? I grew up there lol.... and as fer IT prospects there, years ago you could almost walk into an IT job as the start of the Net cafe craze was hitting the area... now its a lot harder, one reason i left there.. lack of good paying jobs.
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+, N+, MS 70-271, 70-272
    WIP: Being a BILB,
  9. Muir

    Muir Bit Poster

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    Jesus! Yes it was little old Bideford, thats a little freaky :eek:
     
    Certifications: Degree, HND, MCP (305, 306, 229)
    WIP: MCDBA
  10. twizzle

    twizzle Gigabyte Poster

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    Not freaky as i get around a lot in my life.... err did that sound right???

    Used to live in Barnstaple but know Bideford fairly well.. Me old man used to work on an industrial estate there for babyware firm.

    The IT situation in that area at the time (1990's) was very poor with 2 shops in town doin PCs (used to work in one). Also did the colleges network for a little while. But noone else was into IT services... Then all of a sudden after i moved there was a big BOOM in IT and lots of companies in the area were askin for some form of cert or experience in PCs lol just my luck.
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+, N+, MS 70-271, 70-272
    WIP: Being a BILB,
  11. Jay012345

    Jay012345 New Member

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    Hi, ouch job searching, I know the feeling.

    There are a couple of other sites you might want to try: cwjobs.co.uk and itjobboard.co.uk.

    Also try going directly so some of the bigger recruitment companies, reed, huxley, client and server. They seem honest enough from my dealing with em.

    On top of that, do a million combination of google searching for the kinda job you are looking for and you might find some companies hiring directly.

    Good luck mate!
     
  12. unemployedstudent

    unemployedstudent Byte Poster

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    Hello members,

    I'm even more depressed :( Especially regarding IT related jobs.

    I use;
    www.jobsite.co.uk
    www.jobserve.com/Homepage.aspx
    www.cwjobs.co.uk/
    www.monster.co.uk

    These sites post to me daily, I apply for about 3 a day.

    I apply for junior, entry level, low paid, jobs in general and even look at all jobs and just look out for something I can do.

    I saw a job for a junior project assistant 2 days ago, I've applied, nothing to do with IT, but it's a job (it looks rather good) working in corporate presentations/events/shows.

    I'M STILL DEPRESSED.

    Now I find out (after reading some of CF) that I have to pay to take a test (ie the A+) and I can't raise the £80-125. (pounds) needed because I'm unemployed. I thought, take the course and I was qualified - I'm naive. :oops:

    It has been my experience, that nobody hires directly, they all hire through a recruitment company.

    I've tried sending off letters and phoning up a couple of days later (to IT companies) - nothing :x

    I keep reading jobs that I know I can do, but I don't have any commercial experience, blah,blah.

    I'm not complaining, I'm just depressed. Tomorrows a new day, I'm an optomist, otherwise it would be too depressing :D
     
    Certifications: BAISA(hons) Degree, ECDL.
    WIP: A+, CompTIA N+, CCNA
  13. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    Hey Guys,

    I can say I've "been there and done that". I'm 52 and just got my first system admin job after a job hunt of more than a year, and 3 1/2 years of self study.

    First thing, there is age discrimination out there. I'd say the bigger companies are the biggest culprits too. They are only looking to head hunt, to cherry pick as the job market most definitely favors the employers rather than the employees. I found my job in a small company that was tired of young guys who didn't really know how to work, and weren't really all that skilled, despite their claims. To tell the truth I wanted to work for a small company because of the varied experience you get working in one. In a large company you will be pigeon-holed in one area, doing one thing. In a small company you will get a wide range of things to do because everyone in a small company takes on several different hats....

    I do everything from user support to my latest project which is building a web application site that will use clustered web servers and database servers from the design to the implementation and day to day administration of it once it's up and running.. It will run on Linux and an open source database server. I would never get a chance to do something like this in a large company. I'd be shuffled off to the side and made to do mundane tasks.

    I would highly recommend that you guys add Linux skills to your skillset. If I had not had any Linux skills I would still not have a job. There are a TON of out of work Window's techs so distinguish yourself from the crowd by adding Linux to your resume. Linux skills will open doors for you because it shows you're staying on the forefront of the technological curve and that your skills are real skills. You will know much more than how to point and click.

    If you can administer and run Linux you will be held in much higher esteem by those you come in contact with because they will know you have some real computer skills, especially if you concentrate on the harder distro's such as Debian and Gentoo as they have a reputation, whether deserved or not, as not being suer friendly. Any of the *BSD distro's would be good to add to your list of skills too as you must know what you're doing to run them.


    Anyway, that's my advice. Keep adding skills to your skillset and keep on looking. I can't tell you how many times I almost gave up. The only reason I didn't was because I had invested so much time and effort into gaining my skills. Everyone around me was telling me that I should just go to work at some dead end job because employers want to see that you're working, but I stuck to my chosen path and it eventually worked out. I have to say it worked out very well too because I have a job I absolutely love, and I'm challenged every day to learn something new. I'm getting paid pretty well to do it for a newbie too, which is always a plus.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
    WIP: LPIC 1
  14. Rostros22

    Rostros22 Kilobyte Poster

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    It is hard out there and I am very lucky I got in when and how I did in this industry.

    Lots of people have listed the ‘big’ recruitment agencies and I have friends who work in these agencies.

    A lot of the time when you read the job advertisements and apply it is to get your details. They then have your details and can get in contact with you when they do find a position. I won’t mention any agency names as I know that is wrong but certain companies offer up a tasty treat like:

    System Network Administrator Junior: £18,000 - £25,000 depending on experience

    And you read the job description and think to yourself “I can do that” – Yes you can but unfortunately that position does not exist a lot of the time. My best man to be used to work for one of these agencies and left because of the b*llshit that went on. His advice to me was to ring them and ask for the actual department / person you want, never to apply online as any recruitment operator could pick that up and just forward it and it is tagged the number of times you apply for positions.

    As Freddy said there are a lot of people out there who have experience not in work, you need to put yourself in front of them.

    And everyone else has said, keep your chin up. It’s not all bad but I wanted to share how I felt through past experience.
     
    Certifications: ITIL Certs, F.A.S.T Auditor Certs
    WIP: None - Application with Police
  15. twizzle

    twizzle Gigabyte Poster

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    Well what a lot of replies to this post. And lots of good advice,, unfortunatley im already following most of it but it still dosent help they way i feel at times.

    Take this week... I've applied for around 30 jobs since start of Feb. One of which the agency actually rang me up about and discussed my skills, experience and salary expectations. They told me they would put me forward for it....(it was a PC hardware service engineer) 2 weeks later i get a phone call back from them saying that the employer is messing them around as he's dropped the wages he was offering from 15K to 10K!!! Had to tell them that i couldnt accept that as travel was involved which would've cost me around £60 a week so the low wage wouldnt make it worth it at end of day.
    Well 2 days later i get an email about another application... another "entry level" job. Again, no thanks not enough experience... for an entry level job???? And then yesterday a third rejection saying that as so many applications for that posistion had been made the employer was going to be very strict over criteria and only look at those with exactly what was asked for so it was thnaks but no thanks.

    When you get weeks like these it starts to get to you...I keep applying for most jobs i see that i feel i have a chance at in soem small way.. IE no systems admins with 5 years exp. but desktop support and hardware techs with 1 to 3 years exp. But when you get no replies or the only replies you do get are rejections its hard to sit there and say "well try again".

    I have to agree with ffreeloader about working for small companies too. I prefer them as you have better chnace at promotions, gaining more varied exp on different subjects and of being noticed for what you do. I have worked for small firms (less than 60 employees) since i completed my apprenticeship and have always felt comfartable in that environment. However for IT there arent many small firms out there that need ppl. The larger ones do due to Headhunting.. always looks better on a CV if you've worked for a large recognised company, your more likley to get snapped up than if you worked for joe bloggs. So i go for any compnay no matter what size just so long as the job seems to fit what i can do.

    As for agencies,,, im signed on with a few but nothing from them. I know some will only put you forwards for contracts if you have exactly what the employer is asking for while others are better and will send off your CV if they think you can do the job. But the best ones are the ones that let you know how its going.. not just say yes we've put you in for this contract.. then weeks go by and you hear nothing.

    And yes im also using all those job hunting websites that have been mentioned. Only problem with them is that alot have the same jobs on them and most of those jobs are for software developers, web engineers or something similar... And the network adimn ones are for people withj 5 years plus exp and an MCSE or a degree.... I have none of it. (might get an MCSE by end of 2008 if im lucky).

    So in the end all this adds to geting you down... and then you pick up and try again... and then you get down again when the next rejection comes in or theres a posistion you see that you'd lik eto do but no you hvae no chance at due to the description... AND I USED TO THINK IT WAS HARD TO GET WORK AS AN ELECTRICIAN DUE TO NOT HAVING THE QUALIFICATIONS BUT HAVING THE EXPEREINCE!!! IT IS A FAR HARDER SECTOR TO GET INTO...

    And yes im am looking at what i can do to stand out from the rest.... Linux maybe....anything else???

    For anyone interested heres the CV i use now.. updated and radically changed from my old one to aim it at IT better....Any tips?
     

    Attached Files:

    Certifications: Comptia A+, N+, MS 70-271, 70-272
    WIP: Being a BILB,
  16. unemployedstudent

    unemployedstudent Byte Poster

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    I like this thread, if only to confirm I'm not the only one :ohmy


    Twizzle, I like your CV, it's consistent - all about electrical/IT and you obviously have some relevant experience. :D

    Me - I have about 4 previous career/jobs over 25 years all different. I have office experience, callcentre experience and other unusual experience, but only university project experience in IT related work (which was done in the community).

    The suggestion about learning Linux, is not a bad idea, but apart from book work, how could I/we learn it?
     
    Certifications: BAISA(hons) Degree, ECDL.
    WIP: A+, CompTIA N+, CCNA
  17. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    Well, I see two real problems with your resume.

    There is no way to verify anything you assert in your resume. That's huge. Who's going to hire you with no possible way of verifying anything you say? No company that I have ever worked for would have hired me without phone numbers, names of contact people, and addresses of former employers.

    Second you do not account for gaps in your employment record. That's a real negative flag for an employer.

    Third, I wouldn't use the style of resume you are using, not with the number of jobs you have had with all the short term employment. That's another strike against you. Highlight your skills in a resume that isn't chronological in nature.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
    WIP: LPIC 1
  18. unemployedstudent

    unemployedstudent Byte Poster

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    I just found the answer on the Linux forum. :oops:
     
    Certifications: BAISA(hons) Degree, ECDL.
    WIP: A+, CompTIA N+, CCNA
  19. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    You're kidding me, right?

    You install it, play with it, break it, fix it, set up all the servers that come with the Linux distros such as web servers, file servers, database servers, print servers, etc.... You use the mailing lists, distro specific forums, Google, etc... for your resources and research and buy books as you can afford them.

    Here's a list of the Linux books I have so far. I have a lot more Windows books than I do Linux books so far, but I'm just beginning to buy my Linux books.

    The Debian System: Concepts and Techniques
    Linux Cookbook 2nd Edition
    Learning the Bash Shell 3rd Edition
    Self Service Linux: Mastering the Art of Problem Determination
    Beginning Databases with Postgresql
    Apache Security
    Apache: The Definitive Guide 3rd Edition
    Pro Jakarta Tomcat 5
    Tomcat: The Definitive Guide
    Essential System Administration 3rd Edition
    Building Clustered Linux Systems
    Mastering Regular Expressions 2nd Edition
    Samba-3 by Example
    The Official Samba-3 HOWTO and Reference Guide
    Linux Administration Handbook
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
    WIP: LPIC 1
  20. twizzle

    twizzle Gigabyte Poster

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    Thanks for the advice ffreeloader. However that is my new CV, changed it to a format suggested as being successful froma link give on this site lol. I know that no matter how hard you try you can never satisfy everybody, so i have that CV for IT and another different layout for electrical work. I'v never had a problem with having contact details not on the CV.. Its why employers ask for references in Job application forms and also in interviews they can ask for them there.... Its hard to get references from employers who are years old and soem of which have even closed for one reason or another.

    But i do know from feed back i've had from applications that most people are impressed with my CV's... what lets me down is lack of qualifications or experience depending on what i've applied for.... And im never goin to win that unless someone takes a chance..
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+, N+, MS 70-271, 70-272
    WIP: Being a BILB,

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