1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Decisions, decisions!!

Discussion in 'Employment & Jobs' started by hayden101, Dec 8, 2011.

  1. hayden101

    hayden101 Bit Poster

    13
    1
    17
    Hi All!!

    I am a long time lurker of this helpful site but my post count is rather low so time to bump that up!

    I will be writing up a post of how my 2011 has been but first I need to pick your brains about something.

    I have found a great new job (after 3 months of looking), I have had 2 interviews with them and they have offered me the job! GREAT! It’s closer to home, staggered start times, more training, more money and best of all no more 40min drive and getting road rage before I even get into work!!

    I handed in my notice to my current employer ( a Solicitors) at end of November giving 4 weeks notice, they did seem a bit shocked at first that I wanted to leave (I am the only IT guy for this company). They then told me that my notice period is 3 MONTHS!!!! I informed my new employer that my notice is 4 weeks which I genuinely thought it was…this will serve me right for not reading my employment contract all the way through. I then informed my new employer that my notice period is actually 3 months and not 4 weeks and I totally expected them to say we will have to let the job go but they said they can give me till the end of January 2012 to start which I have agreed to. I am liking this new company a lot as they are prepared to wait and extra 4 weeks for me to start with them.

    My current employer has said that my last day with them will be end of February but they will let me go once they have found a replacement for me!

    So my problem is if they have not found a replacement…..do I leave a month early out of my 3 months notice period to start my new all perfect job….or work my full notice period and miss out on my new perfect job????

    I have been with my current employer 4 ½ years, have a great working relationship with all Partners, Managers and staff. I have an immaculate working record with them, no sick days in 2 years (I do get sick but it’s always seems to be when I have booked time off to do something else…sods law I guess), no misconduct or any warnings etc on my record. I like to think of myself as a good employee and as such I do not want to walk out while still in my notice period…but at the same time I don’t want to turn down this perfect job for the sake of my old one which I am leaving!


    Has anyone here had a similar dilemma when leaving one job for another? Any input is greatly appreciated???

    Many thanks people…..is it to early to say Merry Christmas??

    Mike!
     
    Certifications: MCP, MCDST
    WIP: 70-290, 70-291
  2. Boffy

    Boffy Megabyte Poster

    698
    25
    86
    Hey Mike,

    From your post, it sounds like you've found a winner for this new job, congrats on the offer.

    You don't have to work your notice, but be prepared not to get a reference with them in the future as well as sacraficing any pay (check your contract clause) they may have to use to replace you unexpectedly with.

    But, 2 months is a long way away and with the current job market, you could be worrying over nothing. I would accept the 2 months leaving period with your new job, with a thought of leaving your current employer regardless after these 2 months.

    In the next couple of months, ensure they're actively searching for a replacement - you don't need to let them that you won't return in Feb, but it will put your mind at rest if you see them either:

    a) Looking for someone and taking interviews
    b) Not looking for someone, taking the pee by keeping you for 3 months even though you intend to quit. Therefore you shouldn't feel guilty leaving after 2 months.


    business is business, staff come and go, enjoy the future 8)

    Oh, and Merry Christmas!
     
    Certifications: BSc Computer Game Technology, A+
    WIP: MOS 2010
  3. wagnerk
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

    10,831
    357
    341
    I'm actually surprised that they didn't send you on garden leave as soon as you submitted your notice, you could be damaging the systems, stealing data, etc (not that you would, but the risk is there).

    Apart from that do you have any A/L left? You may be able to use that to shorten your notice period.
     
    Certifications: CITP, PGCert, BSc, HNC, LCGI, PTLLS, MCT, MCITP, MCTS, MCSE, MCSA:M, MCSA, MCDST, MCP, MTA, MCAS, MOS (Master), A+, N+, S+, ACA, VCA, etc... & 2nd Degree Black Belt
    WIP: PGDip
  4. Boffy

    Boffy Megabyte Poster

    698
    25
    86
    with 3 months you'd have about 7 days A/L? Not much if you have any more outstanding then great.

    Also, get some documentation updated and done for the new guy/girl, if your current employer will see any candidates having a chance of stepping in your shoes, its the documentation that makes them happier.
     
    Certifications: BSc Computer Game Technology, A+
    WIP: MOS 2010
  5. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

    5,239
    211
    236
    This is always a difficult issue.

    Your notice period is part of your contract, so your old employer is within their rights to hold you to it.
    However, when somebody expresses a desire to leave many employers just let them go, or even put them on garden leave to limit the exposure they have to confidential information or systems.

    In reality, if you've agreed a contract with the new employer, and they are happy for you to walk away from your old one without it ringing any alarm bells about your loyalty/commitment, then there is only so much your old employer is likely to do about it. They can withold some pay from you and maybe give you a bad reference - but in the bigger picture, does that really matter at this point?

    They know that people are going to spend those three months loafing around, and while maybe not doing any actual harm, certainly not doing anything useful - so do they really want to be paying your salary for that period? And if you do develop a grudge because they may be costing you a chance at a better job, do they really want you into all their systems?

    Where you are the only person doing a job and there is no obvious replacement, it becomes more difficult. Depending on the job/companies involved (this tends to be more common the further up the food chain you are), it has been known for people to split the jobs. That way you can offer your old employer a few days a week to keep them up and running until you can hand over, while at the same time spending a couple of days a week learning the ropes with the new company.

    Unfortunately you usually have to be pretty indespensible to both for this to happen, or involved in big long-term projects. There may be some leeway for negotiation though...
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  6. hayden101

    hayden101 Bit Poster

    13
    1
    17
    Hey Boffy,

    I am constacntly on thier case about it. I even wrote up the Job Spec so they could get moving on it, that was last Thursday and as far as i am aware they have not advertised it yet!

    Yes i did think they may very well do this just to keep me on longer but in the long run they will be running the gamble of shooting themselves in the foot as they will have no one looking after their systems once my 3 months is up...as i am the IT Dept lol...oh and they want me to train up my replacement before i leave!!


    Hi wagnerk,

    I actually thought they may of done this and was hoping they would of when i handed my notice in....i almost had my fingers crossed...but yet again there would be no one to look after thier IT systems if im at home putting up the xmas decs!
    Sadly i have used all my holiday up for this year (starts in again Jan) so cant use that idea either!


    I dont want to burn bridges with my current employer but i cant turn down a job that will not just benefit me but my whole family and our life for the better. When i look at it like this there is no contest!
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2011
    Certifications: MCP, MCDST
    WIP: 70-290, 70-291
  7. hayden101

    hayden101 Bit Poster

    13
    1
    17
    Hi JohnnyMX

    I do a lot of desktop work, some server work, some network work...all sorts really! We have a support company i can call if i am really busy, a server has gone down or cover my holiday time. I am still studying for my MCSA so i am not an 'IT know it all' when it comes to server work so i think they should be able to get someone in fairly easily. The problem my current employer will have is that I know they will offer peanuts to the new person which is why i can see most IT peeps not even bothering to read the job ad once they see the salary and this is not a job for a person starting out in IT so anyone with experience may just look elsewhere. On the otherhand i know we are in a bad economy and a lot of people are looking for work so someone will apply for the job....just make sure you get what you think you are worth!!
     
    Certifications: MCP, MCDST
    WIP: 70-290, 70-291
  8. Monkeychops

    Monkeychops Kilobyte Poster

    286
    15
    25
    I've kind of hoped this would happen in my previous 2 jobs but it never did!

    We all know it's best practice, especially considering some of the work I was doing (in one case a pen tester for a large financial), but in both cases I've also been either the only person there doing the work, or 1 of 2 people do the work (as was the case for the pen testing).

    So the business couldn't afford to do that as then the work wouldn't get done until a replacement was found, which a few months on I know they are still recruiting as I can see the job ad :)
     
  9. soundian

    soundian Gigabyte Poster

    1,460
    71
    107
    Tricky one.

    After a little thought I might do this:

    Negotiate.

    I would put forward a plan of action, an ideal scenario if you like, for the handover that involved me giving a little . Maybe say you'll update the documentation in your own time, perhaps work the last week for free so they don't pay for two during the handover, email support for the new guy for a few weeks after you leave, things like that.
    Then I'd go on to explain the logic of the situation. If it comes to the end of January and they don't have a replacement in, your most favourable option would be to leave then, because you're leaving in a month anyway and at least you'd have a new job to go to.
    Then I'd maybe suggest my managers thoughts on my proposal for making the transition as seamless as possible, and suggest a face-to-face to discuss it.

    This is a two-fold approach. Their reaction to this will tell you where you stand. If they stall having a face-to-face to discuss ideas, they're going to stiff you. Pretty stupid since you've just logically proven you're going to be leaving at the end of January regardless (but without actually saying you ARE going to leave, it's just an option).
    If they're thinking straight they'll see the reality of the situation and sit down and have a chat about it.

    It also covers you if things go horribly wrong and they do decide to go for breach of contract. You've offered something in return for being released early from your contract so any attempts to sue you will surely flounder on the rocks of your reasonableness.

    (Since you work for a solicitors you might want to get your offer signed, dated and witnessed :biggrin )
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2011
    Certifications: A+, N+,MCDST,MCTS(680), MCP(270, 271, 272), ITILv3F, CCENT
    WIP: Knuckling down at my new job
  10. derkit

    derkit Gigabyte Poster

    1,479
    54
    112
    I would definitely check your contract - does it actually say 3 months, or doesn't it? It wouldn't be the first time HR have been known to tell porkies - check it yourself.

    Additionally, I remember hearing that if these things went to court, if the person wasn't special enough (ie, senior manager/board director) then this clause in their contract was decided as being unfair - maybe worth scraping some information together in your defence if you need it.

    Try and work out how you get paid - my company has a 3 month notice period (but there are special circumstances for this) but what they haven't told the employees is that when I get paid in November (about 25th of each month), it is the pay for 1st Nov to 30th Nov - ie, I get paid in advance of working those 6 days or so. If I handed my notice in on 1st Dec, and then walked out the door on the 2nd - the worse case scenario is that I would have worked for my company for the 1st/2nd Dec for free - I don't owe the company anything. If I left on 26th Nov, I'd have to pay back 5 days worth of pay!

    My other way of looking at this is that if every aspect of this new job is massively better than the last and it isn't in the same field (law) and you don't mind burning a bridge, then leave when you want. Fair play to the new company waiting until the end of January - sounds like a company worth burning some bridges for.
     
    Certifications: MBCS, BSc(Hons), Cert(Maths), A+, Net+, MCDST, ITIL-F v3, MCSA
    WIP: 70-293
  11. hayden101

    hayden101 Bit Poster

    13
    1
    17
    Hi All, just going to provide an update on this situation!

    After I handed my notice in at the end of November 2011, I was asked by my Manager to write out my Job Spec so they can advertise my position, so I did and he had it in his hands within 30mins.

    I spoke with the HR manager a week later to see if they have had any response from potential candidates for my position. I was told that “oh it has not been advertised yet” So I asked “do you know when it will be advertised” and was told that my current boss, not HR will be putting the advert together. I said to her in the politest way possible that my new job want me to start on the 4th week of Jan so you need to get a move on as I was told once you have found my replacement you will let me go early”

    So the following week rolls round and I go to the HR manager “has my job been advertised yet?” and was told yet again, “no it has not been advertised yet”. I then ask as to why it has still not been advertised and was told that my boss is supposed to be sorting out the advert and HR has not received it to advertise yet. I reminded her that yet again that my new job wants me to start on the 4th week of Jan and you will let me go early once a replacement is found.”

    3rd week of December rolls round and I ask HR “has my job been advertised yet?” and what a surprise I am told “no we still have not received it yet”

    By the 4th week, on 23rd of December I go into work and I see an advert for my job along with 2 others of the front door of our office building!!! I asked HR “has my job been advertised now?” and was told “yes it has now”. So after 4 weeks they have finally decided to advertise my position!! This really annoyed me as it does not take 4 weeks to place an advert online. When I got home that evening I spent about an hour going round various websites looking for my position; it took me a while to finally find the positioned advertised in the local paper and their website only! At that point I was really angry that they have not made any real effort in finding a replacement for me and it has taken 4 weeks just to get the positioned advertised in the local rag!

    After Christmas I go to my manager and say to him “have you found a replacement for me yet as you told me that once a replacement is found you will end my contract of employment”. He replied with “yes we are interviewing ONE candidate next week”……I didn’t know weather to laugh or cry at that point! So I just said “that’s good as you know my new employer wants me to start the 4th week of Jan” My boss just gives me a blank look!

    At the end of the 2nd week of Jan I am told that the person they interviewed that week will be coming in for training in the following week of Jan but he cannot start as an employee till the start of Feb.

    I go straight to my manager and say that I am “leaving at the end of the 3rd week of Jan as you stated that once a replacement had been found and trained I can go”. My boss then says he would like the new person to spend 2 weeks training with me which would mean me staying here until the 2nd week of Feb. I said that will not possible as my new job want me to start at on the 4th week of Jan. Later in the day my boss came into my office and said “we are going to contact your new employer to see if they can put your start day back a week”. I could not believe what I just heard…I said “pardon?”, and was told they will be contacting my new employer…………I spoke straight away with the Agency that was dealing with my job application and told him the situation and asked if my boss can even do that and was told yeah he can as no laws say you cant but it won't look good!

    Anyway next day I meet my replacement and we spend that day just going over the systems and running though a normal day…this was on a Wednesday. I was then told he should be in on Friday for more training….but he didn’t show!

    Next day my agency person calls me and says yeah your boss just contacted your new employers….and it’s not good! You new employers are questioning why he is contacting them and why he wants to put your start day back a week but lucky enough they will not reply to your current boss. I spoke with my boss and said my new employers will not contact you and you have now put my new job in jeopardy by contacting them and I told him that I will be leaving Friday to start my new job on Monday because if i dont then the job will be pulled and i will be loosing both jobs and ill be unemployed.

    My Agency called me back and said that he has managed to negotiated with my new employer for me to start a week later…after they had already arranged for me to start 5 weeks later but my current boss must agree with this. I spoke with my boss and said “if you agree to terminated my contract of employment next week then I will stay for one more week to train the new person as my future employer will allow me to start a week later” He then said “once the new guy is trained up then yes”

    So today the 23rd is when I was meant to start my brand new job, but I am still at my old job for 5 more days and I shall be starting my new job on the 30th Jan. One slight problem….the person I am meant to be training has not turned up!

    So…..a few questions!

    1. Has anyone been through such rigmarole with their employer?
    2. Has anyone had their current employer contact their new employer?
    3. Why has this new guy not turned up? Lol (not after an answer for this one)

    Couple of things I see happening:

    1. If the new guy does not show up for the rest of the week or indeed quits before he starts you can bet my current employer will say “you cant go as you have not trained up a replacement”
    2. I AM GOING REGARDLESS!!!!!



    Sorry this was meant to be a quick update but I needed to put all the facts in!

    All the best and Happy New Year!

    Mike,
     
    Certifications: MCP, MCDST
    WIP: 70-290, 70-291
  12. strayduck9

    strayduck9 Bit Poster

    10
    1
    3
    Hopefully today was your last day
     
  13. derkit

    derkit Gigabyte Poster

    1,479
    54
    112
    I'd run away from the former company as quickly as possible - it sounds like its run by a bunch of numpties!
     
    Certifications: MBCS, BSc(Hons), Cert(Maths), A+, Net+, MCDST, ITIL-F v3, MCSA
    WIP: 70-293
  14. GiddyG

    GiddyG Terabyte Poster Gold Member

    2,471
    42
    140
    Quick question: sorry if I have missed this point in earlier posts in this thread but why can't they just get support from the people who cover when you've been on leave in the past until a replacement is found?

    I think your current employers approach is disgraceful by the way. Enjoy your new job! :)
     
  15. Sparky
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

    10,189
    296
    319
    Leave mate and start your new job. Make a note of all usernames\passwords for the network and hand them to your boss before you go. They f**ked up and then can get a contractor in to look after the network (or try to) until they bother to find a replacement.

    Your current boss had no right to contact your new employer – that is an absolute embarrassment and he\she should be ashamed behaving in that manner.

    Did you ever check if you *had* to work three months notice? That kinda notice period is usually for senior management and directors.
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Exchange 2007\2010
  16. hayden101

    hayden101 Bit Poster

    13
    1
    17
    Morning All,

    Yes i have now left that employment and i am very happy to be out, it is like a big weight off my shoulders...even got my P45 ready for the new job on Monday :).

    @GiddyG Because this option would cost the company on a per-hour basis for their support.

    So yeah, im just reading upon the job spec again and doing some revision ready for Monday!!

    I'll write up a post on Monday after my first day and let you know how the first day went.
     
    Certifications: MCP, MCDST
    WIP: 70-290, 70-291
    GiddyG likes this.
  17. derkit

    derkit Gigabyte Poster

    1,479
    54
    112
    Good to hear you've left them - onwards and upwards!
    The only advice I'd give when you join the new job, don't bad mouth the old employers at all - peers or boss or company - no matter how bad they are, don't make yourself seem like a whiner before you've even had a chance to impress the new guys!
     
    Certifications: MBCS, BSc(Hons), Cert(Maths), A+, Net+, MCDST, ITIL-F v3, MCSA
    WIP: 70-293
  18. reverb

    reverb Byte Poster

    153
    2
    10
    I read this thread with interest as I'm also a one man IT dept and hope I wouldn't have to endure even a small fraction what you had to put up with when I leave.

    Good luck with your new job!
     
  19. hayden101

    hayden101 Bit Poster

    13
    1
    17
    Hi All,

    Just wanted to say really quickly that first day was really good, met the teams, shown the systems all very nice and the team I’m working with seem like my kind of folks!!

    Plenty of tea and coffee too...which is always bonus!

    @reverb I hope no one has to go through that....that whole process reminds me of a scene from Shawshank Redemption where Andy crawls through that pipe, all the way to freedom!!:biggrin

    I’m off, night all!
     
    Certifications: MCP, MCDST
    WIP: 70-290, 70-291
    Boffy likes this.

Share This Page

Loading...