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Computrain - mcse - help someone please :(

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by beaumontdvd, Jan 21, 2010.

  1. beaumontdvd

    beaumontdvd Kilobyte Poster

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    Hi everyone, sorry to keep bringing up training providers but i'm really stuck on what to do.

    I joined computrain in march 2009 to do the mcse which I was sold for 3,300. I was a mug to be honest.
    But I was in a dead-end job training myself when I could doing an IT technician role which mostly cosisted of putting noticeboards up :x which was just over minimum wage, so i was desparate.

    Anyway started computrain and paid for it had the old sales talk saying get a loan if you cant afford it blah blah. You will be guaranteed a job paying at least 28k when you finish the mcse. You have a year to finish it, (bearing in mind I had just turned 19) I accepted as I study hard and then it began.

    I got all my courseware material from Mindleaders which was insufficient,
    I started off learning word,powerpoint,excel,access 2007 as part of a edcl - if im correct?
    Then started the 271 in which the material was poor and I asked for further material. I was then sent 220 mock questions I went through them and when I took the exam some of the questions were identical to the ones I was learning :rolleyes: which I was not impressed with as I take learning seriously and didnt class that as more course material!

    I passed the 271 and im now ready for the 272 exam, I emailed them saying what happens if I'm not finished by March and they said you could pay an additional fee to further the material. Or you will finish the course but they cannot guarantee getting you a job as you have not finished the mcse. Im really stuck with what to do as im unemployed at the moment as I put a lot into this course and didn't want to rush it just to get the MCSE because then that isnt learning it, its just a paper qualification. I have moaned to the training providers and they just say they will get training to sent me more material (which is them questions they sent) I was told I would get my own mentor but instead I was assigned the receptionist/administrator so whenever I ring she basically has no clue what im on about and needs to pass me over to someone else. I had her because the workload was to big and it was passed over to her.

    Sorry about the essay everyone but its really stressing me out,
    hopefully someone can help. I appreciate all replies.

    Thanks,
    Dave
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010
    Certifications: 070-271, 070-272, (MCDST)Level 1,2,3 NVQ
    WIP: 070-270, A+, N+, S+,MCDST 7 Upgrade
  2. j1mgg

    j1mgg Kilobyte Poster

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    It sounds a very short time for some to pass all exams upto MCSE.

    As i found myself it isnt for everyone to do these in this amount of time. I know they dont tell you about what happens if you dont finish in the time frame, but then again you wouldnt spend £4k on a car and not do a bit of research first.

    I just had to put it down to expierence, the only thing i could say is it sounds like thay are kind of using braindump methods which i believe is illegal.

    Sorry for not good news, but i am sure if you keep studying the 272 then you will get a break into IT somewhere.
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+, ITIL V3 Foundation, MCDST, 70-270, 70-290
    WIP: 70-291, security+ and SSCP
  3. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    OK.
    You're not really clear on what you need in the way of help.

    Are you trying to complete the course or get some sort of refund.

    My suggestion would be to try and get out of this.
    I would write to them, but do it calmly and put some thought into it. Get someone else to do it for you if you're worried about writing a formal letter.

    Tell them that basically the MCSE that you were sold isn't suitable for a newcomer to IT as described on the MS website and inside the front of the MS press books, so you were mis-advised by their salesman. You could also add that one year isn't really sufficient to do it either.

    Then tell them that they have (possibly in error) provided you with braindumps. Suggest in a non threatening way that you might consider forwarding them to MS to see what they think.

    Then tell them that the goods and services they have provided are not fit for purpose, and indicate any poor material and difficulties in getting hold of your mentor etc.

    You could also ask to see some stats on how many of their former students got a £28k job at the end of the course.

    Then suggest that the best thing for all concerned is that the course be cancelled and they refund you some element of the costs based on material you haven't had, exams you haven't taken and time the mentor didn't spend with you.

    The important thing is to word it carefully and in a non argumentative way. Don't ramble, rant or whitter on. Keep it to the point and put as many facts as you can in.

    If they refuse, you can threaten them with small claims court and I promise you they don't want to get involved with that.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  4. beaumontdvd

    beaumontdvd Kilobyte Poster

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    Thanks so much!
    I will do it, wont they say you have had nearly a year to say this so why say it now?
    Do you think there is a chance they will refund the remaining?
    Even if i got 200 back that would do me for books ect, I have also had to purchase books for the 271/272 because there material didnt cover it and I failed the first 271 exam.

    Thanks for all your help with this,

    Regards,
    Dave
     
    Certifications: 070-271, 070-272, (MCDST)Level 1,2,3 NVQ
    WIP: 070-270, A+, N+, S+,MCDST 7 Upgrade
  5. beaumontdvd

    beaumontdvd Kilobyte Poster

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    Thanks for the response I appreciate it, I guess its just one of those things that happen. I'm going to take my 272 exam and leave it at that I suppose and maybe study windows 7, I also believe it was a braindump as I passed the exam and was lacking the knowledge as I got the 271/272 book I decided to restudy the whole of the 271 even though I had passed the exam and I learnt so much. if I paid 4k for a car and it didnt perform as they made out it would I guess I would ask for a refund lol :twisted: thanks again for the comment mate.

    Dave
     
    Certifications: 070-271, 070-272, (MCDST)Level 1,2,3 NVQ
    WIP: 070-270, A+, N+, S+,MCDST 7 Upgrade
  6. LukeP

    LukeP Gigabyte Poster

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    I would pass those exam questions they've sent you to Microsoft immediately. Braindumps are illegal and they have no chance against Microsoft in court ($$$$ > $). This obviously will not get you money back, but might sort out CompuTrain once for good
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010
    WIP: Uhmm... not sure
  7. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    There are many TP's with braindump alegations against them but Microsoft have not taken them to court or even removed or reduced their partner status.

    Braindump or no braindump, they generate revenue for MS.

    Think about it, sell an OS or a Word processor with millions of man hours of investment put into it for $100, or sell a computer based exam...

    They are merchandising their brand.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  8. LukeP

    LukeP Gigabyte Poster

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    I guess you're right. Bit of a shame actually.
     
    WIP: Uhmm... not sure
  9. beaumontdvd

    beaumontdvd Kilobyte Poster

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    Thanks for the reply, I dont understand how they could get hold of questions that are practically word for word what comes up on the exam, (They might have changed peoples names from john to paul) Would I get my qualifications taken off me then? :(

    Regards,
    Dave
     
    Certifications: 070-271, 070-272, (MCDST)Level 1,2,3 NVQ
    WIP: 070-270, A+, N+, S+,MCDST 7 Upgrade
  10. LukeP

    LukeP Gigabyte Poster

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    I'm not sure but could be the case.
    Sorry I can't help you more but it's basically how they make money so you will have a hard time claiming anything back.
    You could try to contact Office of Fair Trading as obviously you've been mis-sold and they still advertise false information on their website. On a similar basis Danone commercial was taken off the air because simply it wasn't true.
    Also all PPI for credit cards and loans that has been refunded to customers were on a basis of mis-selling. Might be worth giving it a go.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010
    WIP: Uhmm... not sure
  11. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    They'll say all kinds of things.

    You need to be reasonable, but make yourself look like a potentailly big problem that could be made to go away with relatively little pain on their part. The thing is, they won't want to admit that they are refunding you because of any failing on their part, so you need to give them a way out - a sort of 'amicable' settlement with no strings attached. You could offer to sign a confidentiality agreement, for the good it will do.

    The main thing is to offer them an easy way out first. Neither party really wants this to get nasty, but then neither do you want to pay for something that is sub-standard.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'm continually amazed by people who put up with poor service. If you spent £3k on a sofa from DFS and it didn't come with the cushions you were promised, it was different from the one you chose, it had a leg missing or it wasn't stain-resistant like the saleman said, you wouldn't put up with it.

    What I can't stress enough is that you must have FACTS and you must be clear. The TP will have copies of brochures, course material, a signed copy of your contract, data on when you spoke to them or what they sent to you etc. You need to have a equally comprehensive list of things they didn't send you or times when you phoned and didn't get what you needed. Otherwise you'll just look like you're whinging.

    Ask them for a grand back and see what happens.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  12. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Probably true.
    Look how long it took them to stop GT from calling themselves 'Microsoft Training Academy'.

    Still, I'm sure they would prefer not to have that particular rock turned over, and that's what this is all about really.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  13. LukeP

    LukeP Gigabyte Poster

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    Agreed,

    Which is very similar to PPI reclaiming campaign.
    Usually it ended up bank/credit card company issuing a refund 'as a gesture of good will' but never admitting fault on their side.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010
    WIP: Uhmm... not sure
  14. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    That is inaccurate - they absolutely HAVE bounced TPs out of their programs. Perhaps not in the UK, but they have elsewhere, particularly in Asia.

    EDIT: Then again, perhaps they HAVE done so in the UK... and all you guys see is a shut-down training company that springs up under a new name.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  15. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    I can't say catergorically that none have, but as I said 'many' have not, just look around this forum if you need evidence, there's lots of people saying they were offered braindumps at TP's and these companies are still operating under the same name and are still gold partners.

    I cannot say if they were ever reported to Microsoft, but given the number of complaints on certain companies I find it hard to beleive that none got to the attention of MS.

    With regard to Asia, Microsoft could not even shut down a well known braindump vendor, they just managed to get an enforcement notice served on them.

    http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/26231
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  16. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    I'm sure they have. But who are we to say that Microsoft has done nothing about these TPs? What if an instructor was passing out braindumps without the TPs knowledge? Microsoft receives a report, Microsoft contacts TP, TP investigates the matter, TP reprimands/fires the instructor, TP retains partner status. Yet all you see is the complaint on the forum.

    Now, I'm not naive enough to believe that there are no TPs out there distributing braindumps that have gotten off scot-free. There likely are quite a few. But to imply that Microsoft is doing nothing about TPs that distribute braindumps is a bit irresponsible since you're not in a position to know what Microsoft is or is not doing.

    Could they do more? Absolutely. A lot of it could be stopped by truly cracking down on people who use braindumps, not just threatening without teeth. When a bunch of people start losing certifications, people will stop using braindumps to cheat their way through exams.

    Could not or did not? Microsoft COULD have... but they caved and allowed TK to remain in existence when instead, they should have ripped them apart. As a result of Microsoft's allowing them to remain, TK ended up "complying" by stealing their "content" from another training provider, ant TK's "offshoots" still don't comply with the ruling. Worse, Microsoft still doesn't aggressively pursue braindumpers despite having the tools to do so. So they deserve what they get with regards to braindumping; it's largely their fault for allowing them to remain.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
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  17. beaumontdvd

    beaumontdvd Kilobyte Poster

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    So when writing the letter to Computrain it would have little impact if I mention the Braindumps they have sent me? I guess I might start the letter today thanks for the help everyone.

    Regards,
    Dave
     
    Certifications: 070-271, 070-272, (MCDST)Level 1,2,3 NVQ
    WIP: 070-270, A+, N+, S+,MCDST 7 Upgrade
  18. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    No Jonny made excellent points, just as he says, don't overstate your case, and try and keep it out of court if you can. If you do go to court ensure its the small claims court, the small claims courts good for upto £3000 normally, so keep your claim below that.
     
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  19. beaumontdvd

    beaumontdvd Kilobyte Poster

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    Thanks Jonny and Dmarsh I appreciate it! I will let you know how I get on. (Might send it tuesday as I have my 272 exam then and dont want it cancelled by them LOL)

    Thanks again guys!

    Dave
     
    Certifications: 070-271, 070-272, (MCDST)Level 1,2,3 NVQ
    WIP: 070-270, A+, N+, S+,MCDST 7 Upgrade
  20. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    To the contrary, I'd mention it to CompuTrain AND Microsoft (tctips@microsoft.com). If it's a rogue instructor, CompuTrain can do something about it... if it's a rogue training center, Microsoft can do something about it.

    In any case, when good people do nothing, evil is allowed to flourish.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!

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