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CompTIA VS the norm

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by Donovan21, Aug 13, 2007.

  1. Donovan21

    Donovan21 New Member

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    Hi

    Not sure if I have this right. But i read that studying for a+ n+ etc. its best to get a ComptIA Certificate or do the ComptIA Exam rather than the normal A+ N+ exams. APPARENTLY the CompTia Certification and Exams is a solid credential when considering following the MCSE Security path

    Anyone know about this.

    Thanks in advance

    Donovan21
     
  2. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Well as far as I understand it they are one and the same thing.

    CompTIA run various certification programs, when you take part in a program you study, take one or more exams, and if you pass they give you a certificate/certification.

    http://www.comptia.org/

    They are also a professional body, so its possible to join the body if you are an organisation which is a separate thing.

    If you look on this board you will find that they are rated quite highly and indeed they are a good first step before the MCSE.

    They are entry level professional certifications, as such they are about the GCSE/GNVQ level, the main benefit is that employers will generally know what an A+ or N+ cert is and that it relates to real world skills.
     
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  3. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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  4. Princey

    Princey Nibble Poster

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    They are entry level certifications but they're definitely not GCSE level, more college level.

    I would say that CompTIA's A+ and N+ are good certifications to build a solid foundation on, and perhaps MCP 70-270 and MCP 70-290 (Client & Server) too.
     
    Certifications: A+, CCNA, MCSE 2003, NICE Voice Recording,
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  5. michael78

    michael78 Terabyte Poster

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    As everyone has already said the A+ and Network+ are CompTIA exams. They are a good entry level exam and are worth doing to progress onto say the MCSA/MCSE or CCNA. I just wouldn't expect the CompTIA exams to get you a job in IT as if there is one thing I've learnt is that employers seem to want Microsoft and Cisco certs these days rightly or wrongly.
     
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    WIP: Online SAN Overview, VCP in December 2011
  6. MacAllan

    MacAllan Byte Poster

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    For entry level jobs, an A+ is often a help - although I've come across employers who've never heard of CompTIA. They won't 'get you a job' but they may help separate you out from 300 other new applicants with an ECDL :dry

    [:dry = a dry-humoured wink, so far as I'm concerned - sorry if it means something else to anyone else....]
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, CCNA
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  7. michael78

    michael78 Terabyte Poster

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    It's a fair point mate, it's certainly not going to do you any harm in getting a job and may seperate you from others without those certs. Just in my experience I can't ever remember a job asking for CompTIA certs but they love asking for Microsoft ones. Everytime I talk to an agency about my certs they don't seem bothered about my A+, Network+ or Security+ and just skip pass them to ask me about my MCP's.

    I like to think now looking back that my CompTIA certs where good for my personal skills and knowledge development rather than for my career prospects. If I started all over again I certainly would still do the A+ and Network+ for my first certs...:D
     
    Certifications: A+ | Network+ | Security+ | MCP | MCDST | MCTS: Hyper-V | MCTS: AD | MCTS: Exchange 2007 | MCTS: Windows 7 | MCSA: 2003 | ITIL Foundation v3 | CCA: Xenapp 5.0 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Administrator on Windows 7 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Support Technician on Windows 7
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  8. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Companies looking for entry-level folks aren't going to want to hire MCSE/CCNA candidates and pay them MCSE-level or CCNA-level wages... they'll look specifically for A+ and Network+ certified folks. Thus, these certifications are perfect for someone wanting to get into IT. The MCSA/MCSE/CCNA certifications are good to match experienced people up with more advanced job roles... not entry-level job roles. So if the jobs you're seeing require upper-level certifications... then you're not likely looking at entry-level IT jobs.... you're looking for advanced ones. Similarly, the advanced jobs aren't necessarily ask for A+ and Network+ (though, in my opinion, any advanced admin worth their stuff OUGHT to know those things to help mentor lower-level techs).
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
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  9. michael78

    michael78 Terabyte Poster

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    I couldn't agree more but thats not always the case in real life. I've seen entry level jobs that have asked for MCSA/MCSE or CCNA certs as a requirement. Demands on IT staff are getting greater and greater as employers ask for even more stupid demands of their employees.
     
    Certifications: A+ | Network+ | Security+ | MCP | MCDST | MCTS: Hyper-V | MCTS: AD | MCTS: Exchange 2007 | MCTS: Windows 7 | MCSA: 2003 | ITIL Foundation v3 | CCA: Xenapp 5.0 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Administrator on Windows 7 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Support Technician on Windows 7
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  10. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Well yes I thought my statement might ruffle a few feathers, this of course is my subjective opinion, I might be wrong. However I would consider that a GCSE requires 2 years of effective part time study, there is coursework and one or more exams for each GCSE. An effective pass grade for an employer is A-C, also the grading is adjusted according to the mean of that years candidates.
    What about subjects like Maths or Physics ? Even the other subjects require essay style answers which could be argued as harder than multiple choice. My weekly GCSE Physics homework was harder than the N+. For design technology coursework I built a working amplifier from scratch, yes you can build a PC for the A+ but its not required to pass.
    I would say this puts a GCSE on a par with say the N+ which I passed after 4 days of study with no coursework, granted I have got previous experience.

    I really do think its dangerous to kid oneself that many of these certs test real world ability, problem solving skills, or in depth knowledge, some may well do, I expect most do not.
    Knowing a collection of facts or acronyms in no way indicates real ability. I would quote one of the greatest men of this century Richard Feynman :-


    I totally agree, frequently qualifications are used as a filtering mechanism so you may well need to be overly qualified just to get a look in. Also bear in mind that some people with HNDs/degrees will get lower marks then they hopped for and may therefore be forced to take less glamourous jobs, or skilled people might be out of work etc, all these things can make possibly overqualifed people take less qualified work, where yes ideally you would get a new hire and train them in the hope they will stay.

    Any one of these things can work both ways, you can be overqualified/underqualified purely based on the views of one employer...
     
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  11. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    ...then they're not entry-level jobs. Regardless of what the "demands" are... no experienced MCSE/CCNA is going to take an entry-level job, and the job tasks tested by the MCSE/CCNA are not entry-level tasks.

    You act like I don't come from "real life", and haven't been working for 10 years in IT. :D
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
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  12. michael78

    michael78 Terabyte Poster

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    For the love of god give it a rest. What I was saying is that like it or not employers are demanding more from employees even for entry level jobs. I know MCSA/MCSE and CCNA aren't entry level certs it doesn't stop people from asking for them though. Also not everyone with those certs has commercial experience so yeah they may well take a low paid or entry level job even with those certs.
     
    Certifications: A+ | Network+ | Security+ | MCP | MCDST | MCTS: Hyper-V | MCTS: AD | MCTS: Exchange 2007 | MCTS: Windows 7 | MCSA: 2003 | ITIL Foundation v3 | CCA: Xenapp 5.0 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Administrator on Windows 7 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Support Technician on Windows 7
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  13. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    Easy now boys
    I don't need to remind you both the difficulty of interpreting posts on a forum such as this

    Slypie, I know exactly what you were saying, it was no different when I got in the industry just before the last bubble, as the bubble grows again these outrageous requests are becoming more prevalent

    but as mike says
    anyone with an MCSE should not be applying for entry level jobs, he/she is not entry level! the fact that an entry level role demands one is a bit of a moot point, you know how these HR departments get hold of buzz words and run with em :)

    I'm sure you will both agree that conflicting views are not work arguing over either way :) lets keep everyone smiling! :D

    [Smiley Missing: Passing plenty of beer all round]
    ^^ we should get one of those
     
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  14. michael78

    michael78 Terabyte Poster

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    Fair point Phoenix but if Michael had read my posts he would see I was agreeing with him. I agree a lot of it can be HR getting told about buzz words like CCNA and MCSE and think it's the norm to ask for them. It's a shame as the A+ and Network+ are good certs I just don't think that a lot of companies in the UK either know about them or care about them as they can't see past the Microsoft Certs.
     
    Certifications: A+ | Network+ | Security+ | MCP | MCDST | MCTS: Hyper-V | MCTS: AD | MCTS: Exchange 2007 | MCTS: Windows 7 | MCSA: 2003 | ITIL Foundation v3 | CCA: Xenapp 5.0 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Administrator on Windows 7 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Support Technician on Windows 7
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  15. Phoenix
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    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    I agree, from a career development side my A+ and N+ did zip for me, my MCSE was all that mattered in their eyes

    Thad said, the knowledge they helped me gain was invaluable, so they have a place for sure
     
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  16. Princey

    Princey Nibble Poster

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    Keep in mind that it depends on who's point of view you are looking from here. As far as Cisco is concerned, CCNA is entry-level.

    and what if say, you have a few MCP's but no experience to bind with them? I highly doubt that you wouldn't get anything BUT an entry-level IT job.

    Remember its not just about certifications, any amateur could just study Testking MCP 70--270 for a few days and pass the examination.

    'nuff said
     
    Certifications: A+, CCNA, MCSE 2003, NICE Voice Recording,
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  17. michael78

    michael78 Terabyte Poster

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    Yeah I didn't want to put anyone's nose out of joint but I always thought that the CCNA was entry level as well but some people get annoyed when people say that.
     
    Certifications: A+ | Network+ | Security+ | MCP | MCDST | MCTS: Hyper-V | MCTS: AD | MCTS: Exchange 2007 | MCTS: Windows 7 | MCSA: 2003 | ITIL Foundation v3 | CCA: Xenapp 5.0 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Administrator on Windows 7 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Support Technician on Windows 7
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  18. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    A CCNA might be the first step on the Cisco ladder, it's by no means entry level though

    without having some experience behind you and other certs its VERY difficult to pass, the complex subject matter should not really be attempted as your 'first step' into IT, thus its debatable if its really entry level or not

    I have a friend almost as experienced as me in windows technology, has a degree in internet computing, and still failed the CCNA the first three times he attempted it

    I suppose it just comes down to what the term 'entry level' really means
    I for instance, dont consider a 'junior network engineer' an entry level position, some people might because of the job title though

    being tasked with looking after a few users is entry level
    looking after the network that ties the corporation together should never really be considered such.

    my 2c :)
     
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  19. Princey

    Princey Nibble Poster

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    To me 'Junior Network Engineer' suggests that the candidate will have someone mentoring him. Similar to my case, I'm an IT/Network Administrator of a company and I'm being watched over/mentored by the IT Manager.

    You cant really compare Microsoft Windows technology to Cisco technology as they are completely different.

    CCNA is only entry-level compared to CCNP and CCIE
     
    Certifications: A+, CCNA, MCSE 2003, NICE Voice Recording,
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  20. michael78

    michael78 Terabyte Poster

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    Sorry thats what I meant that the CCNA is Cisco's entry level cert and that the CCNA isn't an entry level cert (hope that makes sense).
     
    Certifications: A+ | Network+ | Security+ | MCP | MCDST | MCTS: Hyper-V | MCTS: AD | MCTS: Exchange 2007 | MCTS: Windows 7 | MCSA: 2003 | ITIL Foundation v3 | CCA: Xenapp 5.0 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Administrator on Windows 7 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Support Technician on Windows 7
    WIP: Online SAN Overview, VCP in December 2011

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