Clarification on what is Ad-hoc

Discussion in 'A+' started by UCHEEKYMONKEY, Sep 17, 2006.

  1. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    cheeky,

    Forget about WEP, WPA, and WPA2 for a while. They are a different subject. Just focus on WAP vs ad-hoc for the moment. Once you have these two concepts you can move on to the first three acronyms again.
     
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  2. Malnomates

    Malnomates Megabyte Poster

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    Cheeck,an AD-Hoc wireless network has a mesh topology,hence every node is directly communicable with every other node on the network.
     
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  3. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    But that doesn't mean that in adhoc mode you can communicate with more than two computers!?
    But does this mean Ad-hoc has a redundant connection?
     
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  4. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    OK so WEP, WPA, WPA are software used for encrypting packets!?

    While ad hoc and WAP are Hardware components used to communicate between computers!?
     
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  5. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    Right I think I get it ..well sort?

    The lines shown on the diagram are lines of communication not cables connected to the computers!:blink
     
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  6. phonics3k

    phonics3k Nibble Poster

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    Yes :D

    I wouldnt call them both hardware components but Yes, I understand what you mean :D
     
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  7. hbroomhall

    hbroomhall Petabyte Poster Gold Member

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    Um - I have just read through this thread and as far I can see it is extremely confusing, and many unrelated terms seem to have been thrown into the mix! :biggrin

    To answer the original question, you are trying to equate apples with oranges - Adhoc and WPA2 are not opposites (as I said in the referenced thread), they are different bits of Wi-Fi.

    And which page of MM confuses - perhaps I can try and clear that up.

    Harry.
     
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  8. Mr.Cheeks

    Mr.Cheeks 1st ever Gold Member! Gold Member

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    i actually thought i understood MM before reading this thread but now im confused! :cry:

    have to admit though - the section on networking more wireless isn't so easily readable like the rest of the book if that makes sense...
     
  9. Bluerinse
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    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    If he said this then MM is talking baloney. SSID is not a security feature it is just a name.

    From the TechNet link I posted recently in the wireless forum.
     
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  10. Sparky
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    You could argue the point that not broadcasting the SSID is a good idea in regard to security. The number of times I’ve scanned for wireless networks and found ‘netgear’ as the SSID is a joke. They don’t even change the default username and password on the router! :x

    Cheek, you are over complicating things. Your original question is like comparing a hard drive to a graphics card and asking which one is faster. :biggrin

    For the A+ you need to know that ad-hoc does not have a central Wireless Access Point, that’s it. 8)
     
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  11. hbroomhall

    hbroomhall Petabyte Poster Gold Member

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    Having looked this up in my copy of MM I have to agree with Bluerinse. MM has adopted, uncriticaly, the popular stance that the SSID is somehow important for security. In my view, not changing the default SSID indicates that you are somewhat sloppy, and may not have changed other defaults. Nothing else.

    Harry.
     
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  12. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    OK. You have a fairly good grasp of the first concept about WEP, WPA, and WPA2 . They are simply means of encrypting network traffic in a wireless network.

    The second part you still have confused. A WAP is a hardware component of a wireless network, but it also creates the structure of the network because it is the center, or switch/hub of the network. Using it creates what would be referred to as a "star" configuration in a wired network. That means all computers communicate directly with the WAP/switch, and it sends the network traffic on to the correct destination.

    Ad-hoc is simply another type of network structure. It's a structure in which multiple computers can communicate, but they do not communicate through any central point. They communicate directly with each other. Each computer in an ad-hoc network directs the communication leaving it. If computer A wants to send a message to computer B it sends it directly to B.

    I still think the best way for you to grasp this concept is to imagine a wired network of 4 computers (A,B,C,D). Each computer has three NIC's in it. Each NIC has one end of a crossover cable connected to it.

    Let's use <-> as a symbol for a crossover cable between two computers meaning traffic can flow both ways between those two computers.

    A<->B, A<->C, A<->D, B<->C, B<->D, and C<->D are all possible lines of communication in a four computer ad-hoc network.

    If you will draw out a line diagram of this you will see that each computer is connected to every other computer in the network, but that there is no central point of authentication. If computer A needs to talk to computer B, A and B authenticate to each other. No other part of the network is involved. If computer C wants to talk to computer D, then D and C authenticate with each other. A and B know nothing about the communication between C and D.

    Is this still as clear as mud? :twisted:
     
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  13. Bluerinse
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    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    It's as clear as an azure sky in deepest summer to me now 8)
     
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  14. Malnomates

    Malnomates Megabyte Poster

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    Is this for your A+ cheeck?

    If so,while it's good to have this stuff in your head,it's a little beyond what you'll need to know for the purposes of A+.Know what WEP,WAP and SSID are for,know why you should implement security across wireless networking and know the physical hardware required to create a network.

    The indepth details for configuring networks are important to know but are more in the realms of Network+.From my experience I needed to know no more than the basics and mechanics that affect them.
     
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  15. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    Harry the MM book I refer to is Passport Certification by Mike Meyers & Martin Acuna 2nd Edition. Pages 332 - 336.

    Actually Freddy's already answered the question I was ok until Malnomates strated talking about Mesh Topology!:blink :dry
     
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  16. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    Taken from MM passport book page 335.

    "Most WAP's broadcast their SSIDs by default, creating a security breach. Detecting the SSId of a Wireless network is a hacker's first step toward using that network"

    Yet in another part of the book it states that in order to set up Ad- hoc wireless network the SSID's must be different in order to see the nodes.

    So this comes back to my original question

    err... what was my original question?

    Oh yes...why is WAP's more secure than AD-hoc? How can a hacker break into Ad-hoc if it is a IBSS?

    I'm not aking this to be ready for the A+ exam I asking this because I don't understand and want to learn about networking!:(
     
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  17. Sparky
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    worry about mesh topology when you do the N+ 8)
     
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  18. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    Thanks Sparky for knocking my confidence in the subject!:(

    If we don't need to learn about wireless networking then why is it in All in one and Passport a+ book?

    Also if I just wanted to pass the A+ then I would of done a BRAIN D..:dunce

    Like the bloke at work who confided in me on my first day!
    That IT is a Piece of Pi$$!

    A child of five could do it!
    He never understood what HD or MOBO's were about because he took a BD:x
    If he had taken the BD out of desperation and then went on to buy MM book and study the topic then I would be more sympathetic! But he doesn't :x :(

    I need to understand this stuff and the MM book is not always clear! That's why I thought I'd ask here because I am sure on one of the newbie threads..Simongrahamuk stated always ask the question no matter how stupid CF will answer it!
     
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  19. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    You I am a little perplexed as to why networking is covered in A+ when it should be in N+?:rolleyes:
     
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  20. Sparky
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    I’m not having a dig at the question mate, far from it. 8)

    All I’m saying is that you don’t want to over complicate things in your A+ studies. I didn’t say you don’t have to know about Wireless technologies for the A+ exam, I said in regard to wireless *topology* is that you only really need to know that ad-hoc doesn’t have a wireless access point. Also be aware of 'bridged' mode.

    Also in regard to the guy saying that IT is a piece of pi$$ I had a similar experience a few weeks ago. A guy said to me that building a PC is like using Lego, all you have to do is plug everything in. I was slightly insulted but do I really care? No! :biggrin
     
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