CIW foundation basic question

Discussion in 'CIW Certifications' started by IThurts, Feb 12, 2008.

  1. IThurts

    IThurts Kilobyte Poster

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    sorry to bump but.........bump please.:biggrin i think i have got used to you guys replying every 3 seconds...so really its your fault :biggrin
     
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  2. Stoney

    Stoney Megabyte Poster

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    You don't necessarily have to use Dreamweaver to import the mock up.

    Once you have created the mock up in PS, you can chop the mock up into smaller pieces that resemble the graphics for your website. I can't remember the name of the tool but it's something along the lines of dividing......

    Once you have all your separate images you just need to build the html and css structure in notepad and reference the images in the relevant tags/divs.

    You can do this in dreamweaver and it is probably quicker than hand writing the code yourself. As you are learning I would advise you to hand code to start with because it will give you a solid understanding of the structure of web sites and what all the various elements mean.

    Dreamweaver used to be a pain for creating poor html code (not sure what the new versions are like) so you would quite often have to manually correct the code after it had been generated.

    I also think it's a bad idea to rely totally on a WYSWIG interface for any sort of coding/development work without fully understanding concepts behind it.

    HTH 8)
     
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  3. nellyp123

    nellyp123 Byte Poster

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    I totally agree with you on WYSIWYG. I learn't HTML and CSS from just using notepad and it really is the best way to understand how it all works. I'm not really a user of Dreamweaver , even though i have it. But i know you can use it in code view like a normal text editor. And using the code hints that dreamweaver gives, can only speed you up. ( and remind you!).
    You can also import your comp into Fireworks and use the slice tool to separate the areas that you want to have events such as rollovers ect. (" Hot spots" i believe their called?)
    Again this is another web application that needs learning, which can leave you a bit dizzy to how much stuff there is to learn.

    Don't do what i did though, which was trying to learn all i could about all there was.....Photoshop, Dreamweaver ,fireworks, flash, html, css... blar blar blar.......!!!
    I must have wasted months going from one thing to another without really mastering anything. Okay, i knew the bare minimum of these but i couldn't do any of them with me eyes closed ( so to speak), which is really where you need to be!

    Learning how (X)HTML and CSS work together ( Semantic mark up), is what needs learning first. Learn the basics of Photoshop, that is......learn how to crop and resize images. That way, when you learn how to position images using CSS, it will make things that easier if you know the size of each image without relying on CSS.
    All the best
     
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  4. IThurts

    IThurts Kilobyte Poster

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    Ok well...
    I have now got Photoshop CS3 and Dreamweaver CS3, but only because i have learnt (and been told) that Photoshop is a must know app. I will continue learning html and css in notepad...the basics that is and then when i am a intermiediate user of these, will take my skills to dreamweaver/photoshop. Ill leave photoshop/DW installed just so i know its ready for me to use when i have fully understood the HTML and CSS concepts and have an intimate knowledge of them. After that, dreamweaver will be more so a "make it easy" tool more than anything.

    I hope my approach is sensible enough to help me learn effecvtivley.
    I will also have the new CIW 510 exam books (3 books and cd) delivered to me all for £100 on Monday, so i can learn from them also. i want the certification more so as a foundation for employeers to see i am keen about the web design path, and it cant be a bad thing because ill be learning along the way too!

    Thanks
     
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  5. Stoney

    Stoney Megabyte Poster

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    Yes definitely learn Photoshop, I wasn't saying not to.

    I was making the point that once you've done your thing in PS you don't necessarily have to use Dreamweaver, and as a novice it would be more beneficial for you to learn html/css in notepad for the time being.
     
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  6. BosonJosh

    BosonJosh Gigabyte Poster

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    I would agree with Stoney. There aren't many professional designers who use a WYSIWYG editor. Most people I know code the HTML and CSS by hand. Until you know what the code *should* look like, you shouldn't rely on any tools to create the code for you, as some of the tools do a horrific job of creating the HTML and CSS (Frontpage anyone?). I hear Dreamweaver does a fairly good job of putting out reasonable code, but you should still learn by doing it in Notepad.
     
  7. IThurts

    IThurts Kilobyte Poster

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    Ok...point taken people :)
     
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  8. BosonJosh

    BosonJosh Gigabyte Poster

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    Thanks! Keep asking us questions...we'll keep answering them :D
     
  9. nellyp123

    nellyp123 Byte Poster

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    You've got the right approach there, as well as the enthusiasm no doubt. If you need anymore help with your studies when you receive your modules, then feel free to PM me or create a thread.

    Good luck m8! :thumbleft
     
    Certifications: CIW Professional
  10. IThurts

    IThurts Kilobyte Poster

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    Thanks alot. I have to pay th fella today for the 3 book volume set and CD. £100. However am in two minds about doing so. :rolleyes:
    One part of my brain is saying, buy the books because you wont get them again for £100. The other part is saying, DO I REALLY NEED to get this certification? Can i not just learn HTML/CSS/Java through tutorials online and also learn photoshop, and i can STILL put that on my CV, and STILL have a portfolio to show around?

    What you guys think?
     
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  11. harpistic

    harpistic Byte Poster

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    Hi again (been offline for a few days),

    really, that's your call. Future employers will be looking at your portfolio and what you can demonstrate through it; as you can see, the CIW isn't a widely marketed course, so the number of future employers aware of it are likely to be small (although a member posted recently that she'd had a phone call because of her CIW).

    As I've said, there's a huge range of books out there already on web design, so it is your choice whether you invest in that avenue, or CIW. Given you've already invested in Photoshop and Dreamweaver, you're already set up for studying independently. And your evident commitment to learning will be just as evident in what you study whether or not it is part of a certification course.

    I've worked in web design for a long time (on and off), and now work in web development, and none of my past clients or employers have ever asked about past certifications or qualifications - what has mattered to them is what I can produce, and that I know what I'm talking about.

    So yeah, you can study your way through (X)HTML, CSS, Javascript, and be just as marketable if not more than if you'd taken the course. :tune
     
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  12. IThurts

    IThurts Kilobyte Poster

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    Hi there,
    Yea the bit in bold/underlined, is what i was talking about really. Its great to obtain a certification, but i am forever and more now than ever feeling that it is not worth the EXTRA cramming and revision and studying, when possibly that time could have been betterspent creating a better portfolio WHILST learning also.
    I guess what im really asking and what it comes down to, is the question of: is it necessary? And from the looks of things judging from what most peeople say, its not really required. More so a good portfolio and the ability to be able to demostrate these assets.

    There are some advantagese obviously to obtaining the CIW certification though and to me these are simply the fact that you can put (in my case) i have SELF STUDIED and passed the exam, showing commitment and ability to work independantly etc etc. The ultimate question in my mind though is, is it worth the trade-off for all those months spent. Judging from what harpistic said about not yet having being ASKED if he is certified.....not really by the looks of things.
     
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  13. nellyp123

    nellyp123 Byte Poster

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    Totally agree with harpistic, you can't rely on these certs. Especially CIW, i wouldn't want to put anyone off doing the training or exams, but i would've gone a different route had i known how...well???.....unpopular CIW is with employers. When i first started studying i didn't look into how popular the certs would be, and being the only or best web design certifications out there, then i thought i was on a winner.

    But you can learn a bit studying ciw especially about usability and accessibility, which is pretty important!!

    What i am doing at the moment is learning all i can about flash and actionscript. Then take the adobe certified expert(ACE) certification and eventually the instructors cert (ACI) and see where that gets me. I would love one day to be able to teach people something that i absolutely love doing, either in a class room or online.

    One day hey????? :blink

    Keep ya chin up though I.Thurts.....your gonna have to learn web design one way or another, and gaining a certification while doing so is worth doing. ( if you can afford the exam fees???)
    Even if you treat the exams as a personal goal, it's still worth doing. And you can build up a portfolio along the way.

    later!
     
    Certifications: CIW Professional
  14. harpistic

    harpistic Byte Poster

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    I remember saying on your original post that whereas A+/Network+/MCSE etc are necessary certifications, databases and web work don't fall into that category. Remember also that the boom in web design was to a large extent propelled by teenagers with computers and internet connections. :tune The fact that there is only one certification route (apparently) available with very little promotion and literature available should indicate this. (Comptia dropped their Inet+ course for this reason).

    Quite simply, certifications don't matter and aren't very relevant in this field - skills are, and given how rapidly the industry is developing, you're not likely to find certification courses to cover them.

    The foundation course seems to be exactly that - give you an overview of the basics and some self-marketing skills, which you can easily learn by yourself. In fact, in the time you spend preparing for the course and exams, you can probably learn a lot more by yourself with far less stress - the main benefit of the course seems to be its structured nature, if you don't have the discipline to self-study.

    If you have a look on Jobserve, there will be very few if any jobs requiring CIW - what they are asking for are the skills you have and experience in them. I don't think someone with a certification will be chosen over someone with a wider skillset or more experience, in the majority of cases.

    If it helps, I've been going through CVs at work for the last few weeks trying to find a new person for my team - what I've looked for is what they know and what they've done to use those skills. That's pretty much what you'll be up against.

    Look into Ajax, Web 2.0, Flash and Perl (useful to know a bit of, even if you don't go the development route). In the meantime, my boss has a good foundation book on his desk, I'll let you know on Monday what it is. (Just looked for it on Amazon but couldn't find it).
     
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  15. harpistic

    harpistic Byte Poster

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    She!! :x
     
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  16. IThurts

    IThurts Kilobyte Poster

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    Oh! my fault!!!

    Now i know :biggrin
     
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  17. harpistic

    harpistic Byte Poster

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    Hrmph! :twisted:
     
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  18. IThurts

    IThurts Kilobyte Poster

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    (bold) - yes that is true nelly, however it does seem there are more negativese to gain from becoming "certified" than positives, if that makes ANY sense, I can learn AND build that portfolio whilst i teach myself through online tutorials too!lol.

    I guess if anything, the books i get from this chap for £100 will be well spend resource material (even if i dont take the all unimportant exam).....lol....it seems to me that everything i talk about in re to the CIW course always has a "but" in it...ie: I guess if anything, the books i get from this chap for £100 will be well spend resource material...BUT i prob could have obtained that (and more most prob) online for FREE....
    :rolleyes:

    Another thing Nelly- why did you do the professional CIW course if you had this opinion...why not just stop at the associate? or have you come to realise this more recently?
     
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  19. harpistic

    harpistic Byte Poster

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    Any chance you can hold him off for a bit while you shop around for other material?

    For £100, you could easily make a note of the subjects and then cover them through other material - for a reality check, the core MS books for the MCSE cost £88 (through Amazon) so that's a h*ll of a lot of money to spend!

    On the other hand, I agree that it could be beneficial to cover the syllabus of the course - but probably better to use other books to cover the topics. (Non-CIW).
     
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  20. harpistic

    harpistic Byte Poster

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    Truly it was out of curiosity - have you looked up CIW on www.itjobswatch.co.uk? :eyecrazy
     
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