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certificates or degree?

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by tas121, Feb 18, 2007.

  1. tas121

    tas121 Nibble Poster

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    iv been asking alot of people whats better certificates or degree?? some say certificates some say degrees what do you lot think??
     
    WIP: A+,mcp.mcdst,mcsa
  2. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    Degrees, just wish I had one :(
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  3. hbroomhall

    hbroomhall Petabyte Poster Gold Member

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    Better for what?

    Some jobs are looking for degrees, some for certs. It depends on the job. For example, a job maintaining a bunch of Cisco routers would be more interested in a CCNA rather than a degree. OTOH, an entry level programming job would be more interested in a programming related degree than certs.

    Harry.
     
    Certifications: ECDL A+ Network+ i-Net+
    WIP: Server+
  4. tas121

    tas121 Nibble Poster

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    i mean which is better for job prospects and job opportunity's?? I would say both are good but alot of people have mixed views.
     
    WIP: A+,mcp.mcdst,mcsa
  5. zimbo
    Honorary Member

    zimbo Petabyte Poster

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    They have their pro's and con's. A degree is yours for life.. where as 90% of the certs out there require re-certification. Degree content is usually a little outdated where as the cert is often more recent. Im doing a degree and im looking into a specialization (M.Sc) later.. i done certs and im still doing certs... im learning all the time so its all helping me.

    a question on the side.. are you considering doing a degree?
     
    Certifications: B.Sc, MCDST & MCSA
    WIP: M.Sc - Computer Forensics
  6. tas121

    tas121 Nibble Poster

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    i am but not at the moment i want to get MCSE certified first. the reason im asking is because alot of people with degrees are finding it hard to get jobs while people with certificates have got jobs.
     
    WIP: A+,mcp.mcdst,mcsa
  7. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    This is a really tough one.

    I think it depends really on what the employer is looking for. For instance, I'm interviewing in the next couple of weeks for a second-line support bod with AD migration experience - no amount of degrees or certifications could prepare them for what they are likely to encounter during the role, so I will, unfortunately, be choosing candidates based on their previous experience.

    However, if I didn't require that experience as a pre-requisite, I think i would always hire someone with a degree over someone with professional certs. That sounds stupid coming from someone without a degree, but the simple fact of the matter is that its impossible to braindump for a degree! I'd estimate that 75% of the MCSE-certified CVs that I've seen for previous roles I was involved in recruiting for were braindumped - and there's no way I want someone with no real-world experience pissing about with my network.

    Certs definitely have their place, but I don't really think anyone should bother studying for anything over an A+ or the two basic MCPs until they have a good six months' experience in IT - simply because they may not find the field is suitable for them.

    My advice would be, if you have a choice, go for a degree first and forget about certs until you;re actually in the industry. Remember that the degree will stand you in reasonably good stead irrespective of whether you ever get into IT, or even get into it then decide you don't like it and want to do something else. Of course, to cover all your bases, you should go for a non-IT specific degree, such as Engineering or a Maths-based degree. They are so hard, and garner so much respect from employers that you'll get interviews before most other candidates - even computer science grads in some cases!
     
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em
  8. zimbo
    Honorary Member

    zimbo Petabyte Poster

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    I seen that too.. and the key word is experience.. plus everyone im doing degrees with think once they finished they starting 30k jobs.. you try explaining it to them IT isnt that simple...

    Want some advice from a guy not much older than you nor more experience... get into uni.. it will have more weight plus your MCSE could take 3 years to finish.. you in birmingham.. UCE birmingham.. they run good courses and i know for a fact once you complete their degrees you get CCNA certified as well (you just need to do the exams). Look into it...

    http://www.uce.ac.uk/web2/tic/computer_networks.html
    http://www.uce.ac.uk/web2/tic/compnet_sec.html

     
    Certifications: B.Sc, MCDST & MCSA
    WIP: M.Sc - Computer Forensics
  9. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Certificates or certifications? Two totally different things. Certificates are relatively worthless, and a degree will beat them, hands down. Certifications are great, and are quite useful. However, I wouldn't say certifications are better than a degree, nor would I say they are worse. That's like asking which is better to have, experience with Linux or experience with Unix? Experience with Microsoft or experience with Cisco? Depends on what's needed for the job. BOTH are good to have.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  10. Crito

    Crito Banned

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    Just do a web search on "term papers" and see what you come up with. Here are the top ten returned by AltaVista:
    www.fastpapers.com
    www.papermasters.com
    www.termpaperrelief.com
    www.non-plagiarized-termpapers.com
    www.ghostpapers.com
    www.essaytown.com
    www.papersonline.us
    www.papersinn.com
    www.superiorpapers.com
    www.abtermpapers.com

    I forget who originally said it, but I often repeat this pearl of wisdom: "To succeed in IT you need experience, education and certifications. The less of one you have the more of the other two you'll need."

    And just from real-world observation, seems to me the people who are most frustrated are the ones with a lot invested in just one of those areas. The Ph.D who never landed a corporate J.O.B. and has been stuck in the same dead-end teaching position for two decades. The self-taught guy with a lot of experience who thinks certs are beneath him. The braindump guy with zero experience who managed to get six certs in six months, but feels he "earned" them because the bootcamps cost $30,000...
     
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: none
  11. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    ...you're making it awfully easy for someone to braindump their term paper... :ohmy ;)

    Well said on the "one-out-of-three" and "two-out-of-three" type of person. I agree completely.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  12. wagnerk
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    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

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    I totally agree with that, now-a-days in order to get far in your choosen profession, you need the triad: Experience, Academic quals (Degrees, diplomas, etc) & professional certs (MS, Cisco, Comptia, Citirx, etc).

    More Uni's are starting to integrate Professional Certs into their degrees, have a look round. You could "kill 2 birds with 1 stone".

    As for which is better, imo - get both, they both compliment each other :)

    -Ken
     
    Certifications: CITP, PGCert, BSc, HNC, LCGI, PTLLS, MCT, MCITP, MCTS, MCSE, MCSA:M, MCSA, MCDST, MCP, MTA, MCAS, MOS (Master), A+, N+, S+, ACA, VCA, etc... & 2nd Degree Black Belt
    WIP: PGDip
  13. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    In my humble opinion, I'd say both.
    There is always going to be someone or someplace who doesn't recognise one of them.

    Go to the BCS and tell them you're an MCSE. They'll look at you as if you were daft.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  14. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    Both! But to be honest it’s handy to have a degree as you can’t use brain dumps to pass. However once you are working in IT industry certs are just as important, especially the MCSE. :biggrin
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Exchange 2007\2010
  15. kat731
    Honorary Member

    kat731 Megabyte Poster

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    Ummm... I finished my 3 year Hons Degree when i was 30. Although im very proud of it, i dont think it helps me that much, wish it did. I did manage to secure my 1st real IT job last Sep as a school IT Tech, but it didnt work out unfortunately. I get plenty of repeat business in PC repair, part time/hobby come business, but just wish i could get a proper IT job. I dont even get return calls from IT recruitment places who advertise. Maybe its me age. So, Degree.... sometimes i wish i hadnt bothered, but thats only when job hunting gets me down. Maybe my CV needs looking at!!
    Kat:D
     
    Certifications: BA (Hons), A+
    WIP: 70-685 77-884
  16. zimbo
    Honorary Member

    zimbo Petabyte Poster

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    I totally diagree with you guys saying its possible to braindump a degree... Crito maybe in the US is different but from what i have seen in my uni here in the UK.. try hand in work that isnt yours and a nice F will appear end of semester...
     
    Certifications: B.Sc, MCDST & MCSA
    WIP: M.Sc - Computer Forensics
  17. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    That’s true, universities are much more aware of the problem of students downloading material off the net.

    If somebody does cheat to pass their degree there a high possibility they will get caught however it is highly unlikely that someone who uses brain dumps to pass certs will get caught. Not good. :x
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Exchange 2007\2010
  18. UCHEEKYMONKEY
    Honorary Member

    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    Some interesting replies and advice here:thumbleft

    But what about the financial side, it's all very well having a degree.

    But how much does a degree cost theses days?

    How much does a Cert cost?

    OK Zimbo - How does the cost of your degree compare to MCSA?

    Also there's the time factor, How long have you been on your Course Zimbo and how long would it take to do MCSA?

    They say a Good Degree opens many Doors to jobs, but how true is that?
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+
    WIP: Comptia N+
  19. Crito

    Crito Banned

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    Cheating isn't endemic to IT. The same people who would cheat on a cert test would cheat on a uni test. So I'd argue the numbers are probably about the same for both.

    And I should point out that I quoted a UK source before, who I'll quote again:
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/26d00912-490e-11db-a996-0000779e2340.html
     
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: none
  20. zimbo
    Honorary Member

    zimbo Petabyte Poster

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    1. A degree now costs 3k a year... we all know how the top up works.. and how you pay it back (i.e. 15k+ you start paying back - IMO thats a good deal). Why is a good deal cause they uni's not training companies who will take your money and give you nothing.

    2. People are paying 6k for a few certs (Take a look around certain training companies) and in the end you end up a PAPER certified pro.. where as there is atleast a sandwich course now on offer to get experience.

    3. My MCSA took me just over 1 1/2 years to complete - MCSE if i started could well take me the same time frame - thus 3 years - time to complete a degree (speak to pete and ask him how long ISA 2000 took him to learn).

    4. Its a totally different learning enviroment in uni. nothing like school nor self-study for a cert. I have 3 2 hour lectures, 3 2 hour labs and 3 1 hour seminars. You then have work that needs to be done and research to be carried out.. the library is packed with material and their a will to work hard. Im sorry but a degree no matter the amount of money is worth it.
     
    Certifications: B.Sc, MCDST & MCSA
    WIP: M.Sc - Computer Forensics

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