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CCSP without experience

Discussion in 'Network Security' started by samcode, Jul 30, 2009.

  1. samcode

    samcode Bit Poster

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    Hi :D......this is my first day here..I'm in my 3rd year(B-tech) and a CCNA.I'm planning to do CCNA security next.
    The main thing here is I have the time to even complete CCSP in college which means i will be having no real industry/company experience but having the CCSP(i will be having the experience of working on real routers/switches but not in a real industry).Is it useful to do it when in college or do it after some industry experience? .
     
    Certifications: CCNA
    WIP: CCNA security
  2. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    After industry experience. No company in their right mind will allow someone right out of college to start securing their networks. One cannot truly secure what one has never administered.

    By all means, get the knowledge... but the certification won't do you much good (and can actually hurt your chances of getting into IT!) until you get some real-world experience under your belt.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  3. samcode

    samcode Bit Poster

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    Hi Micheal,
    Thanks for the information mate....

    In what way do u think will it affect my chances of getting inside the IT industry(please reply)??????

    And

    Is it okay to atleast complete my CCNA security and CCNP(as u had suggested) before completing college ????
     
    Certifications: CCNA
    WIP: CCNA security
  4. wagnerk
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    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

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    You may want to read this.

    There are a growing number of managers who are just ignoring the higher level professional certifications (I know I'm one of them) if the experience don't match... I have to say that I've also disregarded people with the higher level professional certs and no experience for entry level jobs.

    Study for what you want, but just remember:

    1. Cisco certs expire after 3 years
    2. Not every one uses Cisco kit, let alone personally administers Cisco kit (see here)

    Unless you doing the above, personally I would say don't do it... But it's up to you...

    -Ken
     
    Certifications: CITP, PGCert, BSc, HNC, LCGI, PTLLS, MCT, MCITP, MCTS, MCSE, MCSA:M, MCSA, MCDST, MCP, MTA, MCAS, MOS (Master), A+, N+, S+, ACA, VCA, etc... & 2nd Degree Black Belt
    WIP: PGDip
  5. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    The CCSP? I think it will negatively affect your chances of getting inside the IT industry. The CCSP has nothing to do with entry-level tech work.

    Without IT experience, the CCNA security and CCNP will also negatively affect you getting your first IT job. Entry-level techs aren't hired to work on Cisco gear... those jobs are entrusted to techs who have experience.

    Do what you will, but I'd recommend that you avoid Cisco certifications for a few years... not because you can't pass them, but because getting them will likely get you turned down for entry-level tech jobs. You'll be way overcertified for your experience level.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  6. demarrer

    demarrer Byte Poster

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    I wish that Cisco/Microsoft would do what ISC does with the CISSP qualification. You can study and pass the CISSP exam so you get the knowledge/theory of the areas it tests on, however, you can only have the qualification after 5 years of real life experience endorsed by another security pro. Also during this time you become an associate. It doesnt stop there, as you have to keep you associate title in "good standing" which means you have to continue educating yourself, others etc etc.

    With this type of system it makes things more transparent, as I think as a manager hiring a new tech you could see that the guy going for the job has worked really hard to get certified and knows the theory of a particular technology but the guy is a noob and doesn't have the real life experience yet.

    What do you all reckon?

    Maybe Associate MCSE, Associate CCNA etc etc ???
     
    Certifications: A+, Security +, CCNA, CCSA
    WIP: music, (dreaming of) CCIE Security :D
  7. wagnerk
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    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

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    I too would like to see something along these lines, however from what I can make out, the (ISC)² is also a professional association like the BCS & IET, but specializing in security instead of the broader overview of IT. Things that make me think that way would include:

    1. being a member of (ISC)²
    2. (ISC)² Code of Ethics

    Hence why there's a few of us on here that do like professional associations and strive (if not already attained) Chartered status/Registered status like the EngTech, IEng, CEng, ICTTech & CITP marks. As well as the correct registed grade with them, eg MIET, TMIET, AMBCS, MBCS, FBCS, etc...

    -Ken
     
    Certifications: CITP, PGCert, BSc, HNC, LCGI, PTLLS, MCT, MCITP, MCTS, MCSE, MCSA:M, MCSA, MCDST, MCP, MTA, MCAS, MOS (Master), A+, N+, S+, ACA, VCA, etc... & 2nd Degree Black Belt
    WIP: PGDip
  8. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    That's all well and good... but what you're not understanding is that those job responsibilities have nothing to do with entry-level tech work. Without the experience, what good is certifying on those products when an employer isn't going to hire you to administer servers or routers??? Call it MCSE or Associate MCSE, it makes no difference.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  9. Tieken

    Tieken Bit Poster

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    Certification guides will give you a good understanding of basics of security and if you're ready to test your knowledge by passing exams and you don't mind to cough up hundreds of $$$ - why not? Knowledge, even merely theoretical, would be a good thing.

    But I wouldn't recommend you to show off this accreditation while applying for entry-level positions.
     
  10. samcode

    samcode Bit Poster

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    Thanks a lot mate....All of u have the same general opinion and hence i now know exactly what to do...
     
    Certifications: CCNA
    WIP: CCNA security
  11. samcode

    samcode Bit Poster

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    Hi Guys,
    Thankyou for helping me out......what else do u think i can be doing during this time???????????(please reply)
     
    Certifications: CCNA
    WIP: CCNA security
  12. wagnerk
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    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

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    Where to start???

    A+, Network+, MCDST, ITIL v3 foundation, joining a professional association (even at student/affliate level), volunteering to gain experience, or even a short customer service course to build up your soft skills :)

    -Ken
     
    Certifications: CITP, PGCert, BSc, HNC, LCGI, PTLLS, MCT, MCITP, MCTS, MCSE, MCSA:M, MCSA, MCDST, MCP, MTA, MCAS, MOS (Master), A+, N+, S+, ACA, VCA, etc... & 2nd Degree Black Belt
    WIP: PGDip
  13. samcode

    samcode Bit Poster

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    Hi Ken,
    Thanks for ur reply......R u suggesting me to do those certifications or just to develop the knowledge.....
    Regards,
    Sam
     
    Certifications: CCNA
    WIP: CCNA security
  14. wizard

    wizard Petabyte Poster

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    Please stop bolding part of your replies.

    Certifications will show that you have the knowledge.

    Building up your work experience will be the most important part of all.
     
    Certifications: SIA DS Licence
    WIP: A+ 2009
  15. supernova

    supernova Gigabyte Poster

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    Thats how i had to do my accountancy. Apart from i couldn't get into it, because my hearts in IT.

    Yes CISSP is along those lines, my friend tells me the updates are a pain, he rather take the CISSP again.


    (comparing CISSP to accountancy, its not entry level..... IT route A+,N+, MCDST etc)
     
    Certifications: Loads
    WIP: Lots
  16. wagnerk
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    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

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    Those are entry level/tier 1 certs (the ITIL v3 Foundation are for all levels), so I would say go for them now if you can (plus they don't expire, which is another bonus) :)

    -Ken
     
    Certifications: CITP, PGCert, BSc, HNC, LCGI, PTLLS, MCT, MCITP, MCTS, MCSE, MCSA:M, MCSA, MCDST, MCP, MTA, MCAS, MOS (Master), A+, N+, S+, ACA, VCA, etc... & 2nd Degree Black Belt
    WIP: PGDip
  17. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    But the CISSP has nothing to do with entry-level jobs either. So getting an associate CISSP/SSCP isn't useful, and can actually work AGAINST you when getting into the IT field... just like an MCSA/MCSE or CCNA/CCNP without experience. What's the point of getting them early in your career if that's what happens?
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  18. supernova

    supernova Gigabyte Poster

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    I agree,

    ... sorry i was a little off thread

    I was referring to CISSP is a IT certification that is very similar to chartered accountancy. In that it requires experience for a number of years (5 years), a qualified supervisor and association membership.

    And before you get to that you take certifications below eg all the AAT parts and even foundations below that. (accountancy)

    was referring to the correct path really....

    I agree the IT route should be... A+, N+, MCDST ... etc

    you wouldnt become an chartered accountant before general accountancy or even bookkeeping
     
    Certifications: Loads
    WIP: Lots
  19. samcode

    samcode Bit Poster

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    Thanks mate.........I know i already asked about this stuff but anyway here it is
    Do you personally think that i can do CCNA security or alteast a linux certification during this period...
     
    Certifications: CCNA
    WIP: CCNA security
  20. wagnerk
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    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

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    Certifications: CITP, PGCert, BSc, HNC, LCGI, PTLLS, MCT, MCITP, MCTS, MCSE, MCSA:M, MCSA, MCDST, MCP, MTA, MCAS, MOS (Master), A+, N+, S+, ACA, VCA, etc... & 2nd Degree Black Belt
    WIP: PGDip

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