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Career Progression or lack thereof

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by Qs, Jul 16, 2009.

  1. Qs

    Qs Semi-Honorary Member Gold Member

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    Rant time, so apologies in advance.


    I've just found out that my employer won't reimburse me for any exams not directly related to my current role. How the hell is this meant to be encouraging career progression? I had to twist their arm so they would cover the 70-621 costs, but they won't fund any more.

    My point being... If I wanted to move into the Server department then I'd need a MCSE, but the company don't want to pay for such progression. Wha?! It feels as though they want me to just sit at this level for the rest of my career.

    Argh. :( Sucks.

    Can anyone see their point of view or am I being totally unreasonable? Opinions please people.

    Thanks in advance,

    Qs
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCSE: Private Cloud, MCSA (2008), MCITP: EA, MCITP: SA, MCSE: 2003, MCSA: 2003, MCITP: EDA7, MCITP: EDST7, MCITP: EST Vista, MCTS: Exh 2010, MCTS:ServerVirt, MCTS: SCCM07 & SCCM2012, MCTS: SCOM07, MCTS: Win7Conf, MCTS: VistaConf, MCDST, MCP, MBCS, HND: Applied IT, ITIL v3: Foundation, CCA
  2. Big_nath

    Big_nath Kilobyte Poster

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    In my mind it is benefitial for them as you are more likely to progress your career with them (rather than move on), if they show they are willing to invest in you and that they value you as an employee!

    That said my place won't pay anything towards any books or exams at all!
     
    Certifications: MCP, MCSA, MCSA:M, MCSE, MCTS
    WIP: A few
  3. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    Can I see their point? Sure. They dont really want you to progress, since progressing probably means you will leave. They need you to be filling the role you are in at the moment, since they need it filled out.

    Quite a lot of companies wont fund any training at all, let alone any training not relevant to the role they pay you to do. They arent here to fund your progression, they are here to ensure that the job they pay you to do gets done.

    There are employers around that will help fund other studies outside of the job role, but to be honest you are likely to find that they are rare. Its not in their vested interested to get you trained to do a job other than the one you are paid to do. Should you ever enter a different job role with them, then they will train you (on the job, or via courses) on the responsibilities required for that job.
     
    Certifications: ITIL Foundation; MCTS: Visual Studio Team Foundation Server 2010, Administration
    WIP: None at present
  4. craigie

    craigie Terabyte Poster

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    This is a common situation.

    The employer wants you to stay still and you want to move on.

    You have the ambition, Q's to do the self study, which inturn improves your knowledge and the ability to resolve issues. I say if you can afford to, fund them yourself.

    Then when the time comes, move on mate.
     
    Certifications: CCA | CCENT | CCNA | CCNA:S | HP APC | HP ASE | ITILv3 | MCP | MCDST | MCITP: EA | MCTS:Vista | MCTS:Exch '07 | MCSA 2003 | MCSA:M 2003 | MCSA 2008 | MCSE | VCP5-DT | VCP4-DCV | VCP5-DCV | VCAP5-DCA | VCAP5-DCD | VMTSP | VTSP 4 | VTSP 5
  5. xavipr

    xavipr Bit Poster

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    Totally agree with craigie... If you want something to happen, do it yourself... because the employer it's going to delay your progression at their convenience.
     
    Certifications: 70-270
    WIP: 70-290
  6. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    Sorry to hear that mate. A lot of companies do what yours have done I've heard. If you can afford it I'd pay for it all myself. It can get expensive but its an investment in yourself and how much you believe you can achieve. If you do pay for it yourself, by the time you're finished you'll be able to think, are these paying me what I'm worth cos I've spent a lot to better myself. If their not, you'd be more inclined to apply for the job you deserve and push yourself harder to recoup the costs. Thats my 2p worth. Jim
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  7. Qs

    Qs Semi-Honorary Member Gold Member

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    Firstly, thanks for the comments. I knew what you were all going to say but I'm very biased at the moment :p

    What annoys me is that my employer was actively encouraging paying for all of my qualifications originally. Then there was talk of paying me additional cash for the exams that I had passed as an added incentive (as they had done with their previous training scheme)

    NOW they've had a think about it and have decided to just sod it all off and not help with anything.

    That's what's making me angry.

    I'm not going to stop, I'm going to progress and then leave when the time is right and work with craigie up in [whereever craigie lives] :p

    Qs
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCSE: Private Cloud, MCSA (2008), MCITP: EA, MCITP: SA, MCSE: 2003, MCSA: 2003, MCITP: EDA7, MCITP: EDST7, MCITP: EST Vista, MCTS: Exh 2010, MCTS:ServerVirt, MCTS: SCCM07 & SCCM2012, MCTS: SCOM07, MCTS: Win7Conf, MCTS: VistaConf, MCDST, MCP, MBCS, HND: Applied IT, ITIL v3: Foundation, CCA
  8. danielno8

    danielno8 Gigabyte Poster

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    I would probably take it to mean they don't see you filling a role with them in such a way that it would be of a benefit to the company.

    Also, you say you would need an MCSE to move into the server dept, but thats not true (unless you are speaking about at your actual company) .
     
    Certifications: CCENT, CCNA
    WIP: CCNP
  9. Qs

    Qs Semi-Honorary Member Gold Member

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    It's not a hypothetical. Server team requires MCSE. But I see your point.

    Qs
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCSE: Private Cloud, MCSA (2008), MCITP: EA, MCITP: SA, MCSE: 2003, MCSA: 2003, MCITP: EDA7, MCITP: EDST7, MCITP: EST Vista, MCTS: Exh 2010, MCTS:ServerVirt, MCTS: SCCM07 & SCCM2012, MCTS: SCOM07, MCTS: Win7Conf, MCTS: VistaConf, MCDST, MCP, MBCS, HND: Applied IT, ITIL v3: Foundation, CCA
  10. dazza786

    dazza786 Megabyte Poster

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    Mate you're lucky to have any cost reimbursed...
    I've had to pay out of my own money, even though they know it's benefitting them.
    c*nts

    edit: in response though, it is very unsportsmanlike to agree on something and then turn round and do the opposit.
     
    Certifications: MCP (271, 272, 270, 290, 291, 621, 681, 685), MCDST, MCTS, MCITP, MCSA, Security+, CCA(XA6.5)
  11. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    :lol: what do you really think of them dazza . . . ha ha just kidding. No I can see your point Q's, to get your hopes up then say "well actually we've changed our mind" is worse than them offering you nothing in the first place. You'l have the last laugh mate don't you worry :twisted:
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  12. Hades

    Hades Nibble Poster

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    Q It could have been worse, Talking to my line manager I mentioned the MCSA and he said go forth and find the details and we'll talk about it in a few months... a few months pass and I enquire about it again.... We'll talk in a few months due to him needing to speak to his boss....... Well the day came when my line manager and his boss came to my office to chat with me..... Hopes started to raise as I entered :biggrin.... then fell sharply... I was put at Risk of Redundency! :blink - Needless to say I didnt see that one comming.

    But with any luck I have showed them the errors of their ways and I may end up keeping my job ...... but I think I'd better keep an eye out for a new one :rolleyes:
     
    Certifications: City & Guilds Diploma in ICT level 2+3
  13. pete.grant

    pete.grant Byte Poster

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    It's posts like this that put things into perspective! We get our training budget every year and basically are free to spend it how we wish (so long as it is relavant to our job).

    Last year I used loads of it, however, this year I won't use as much but my colleagues are likely to. It's only a small team though so a lot easier to manage in that way.

    I can understand why a company would be reluctant to invest money in training for its staff, particularly in this financial climate (we had our training budget halved for this finacial year).
     
    Certifications: A+ IT Technician, CCENT, CEH, CPTS, CIW Security Analyst, ITIL v3 Foundation, Master CIW Administrator, MCITP (Windows Server 2008:SA), MCSA on Windows Server 2008, MCSA:Security on Windows Server 2003, MCTS (70-648, 70-652), Network+, SCNS, Security+, Server+
  14. dazza786

    dazza786 Megabyte Poster

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    I can't take your posts seriously with that avatar :biggrin
     
    Certifications: MCP (271, 272, 270, 290, 291, 621, 681, 685), MCDST, MCTS, MCITP, MCSA, Security+, CCA(XA6.5)
  15. pete.grant

    pete.grant Byte Poster

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    It's Bubbles from Trailer Park Boys. You seen it? Funny as hell - I bought all the DVD's from a website in Canada before they started selling them over here. When I was in NY I went all over the place trying to find the DVD's but no one had ever heard of it!
     
    Certifications: A+ IT Technician, CCENT, CEH, CPTS, CIW Security Analyst, ITIL v3 Foundation, Master CIW Administrator, MCITP (Windows Server 2008:SA), MCSA on Windows Server 2008, MCSA:Security on Windows Server 2003, MCTS (70-648, 70-652), Network+, SCNS, Security+, Server+
  16. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    He looks like Eddie the Eagle!
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  17. soundian

    soundian Gigabyte Poster

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    I can see their point of view. These are tough economic times and everyone is looking to make spending cuts. Cutting out non-essential training costs seems a perfectly reasonable measure to me.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+,MCDST,MCTS(680), MCP(270, 271, 272), ITILv3F, CCENT
    WIP: Knuckling down at my new job
  18. craigie

    craigie Terabyte Poster

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    That guy is a legend!
     
    Certifications: CCA | CCENT | CCNA | CCNA:S | HP APC | HP ASE | ITILv3 | MCP | MCDST | MCITP: EA | MCTS:Vista | MCTS:Exch '07 | MCSA 2003 | MCSA:M 2003 | MCSA 2008 | MCSE | VCP5-DT | VCP4-DCV | VCP5-DCV | VCAP5-DCA | VCAP5-DCD | VMTSP | VTSP 4 | VTSP 5
  19. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Yes, it sucks, but it's not unusual.

    Say you worked in a supermarket on a checkout.
    You want to progress your career so you ask if the company will pay for you to learn how to drive a forklift so that you could help out in the warehouse.

    It's another string to your bow and you would think that a spare FLT driver would be useful for them.

    Not the way it works.
    Your current boss wants you sitting on a checkout.
    If the company thought they might need a spare FLT driver they would come looking for one. Or tell you that you didn't have a choice and that you had to pass your FLT test as part of your current job role.

    You would need to be very fortunate indeed to work for a company that allowed you to run off on your own personal career track and then also offered to pay the bill.

    Most companies want what they want, not what you want.

    There are exceptions though, but most companies will fear pouring money into non-essential training in case you're just padding your CV and planning to run off and give somebody else all the benefits.

    One thing to try might be to offer to sign a training contract with them. This would be along the lines of, they fund X and Y for you and in return you won't leave for Z years. If you do, you agree to repay all or a percentage of the training cost. That might work.

    But on the whole, non-essential development might be something you have to do alone. I studied a couple of years with the OU with a previous employer. It never occurred to me to ask them to chip in, because I was doing it for me, not them.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  20. wizard

    wizard Petabyte Poster

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    It looks like it's time to dust off your CV, as it seems now you've progressed as far as your company is willing to allow you. However if you like the company you're working for, I'd hang fire and see what happens in the next 6 months to a year, the belts may loosen.
     
    Certifications: SIA DS Licence
    WIP: A+ 2009

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