Career going down the tubes

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Unfortunately, Sly, that "don't wanna listen" mindset is why you're struggling in your career. If you want to be successful, do what successful people advise and do. I did, and now I'm trying to pay it forward.

Good luck to you.

 

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Have to absolutely agree with this, why would a company train you up past what they need? All that results in is them having to go through the hiring process all over again when you move on. Training you for the job your doing is one thing, training you for something they don't need is a waste of their time and money.

 

Sorry Michael but again your blinkered point of view isn't my view. If that was the case I would never work with Oracle or Sharepoint as no company I have ever worked for has used either of them. So your view is that I will never be able to work on those technologies unless I manage to work for a company who uses say Oracle. World just doesn't work like that. There is no problem with someone like me who has worked in IT for years in learning and being able to apply my knowledge elsewhere in other technologies I've never used. I do agree that someone without IT experience would probably struggle without exposure to working in IT. I feel that if you can demonstrate an ability to learn and adapt to different technologies then why shouldn't I try to progress my career.

Again and don't take this as an attack but I'm after positive advice and not negatives as I really don't need that at this time.

 

Not what I meant of course companies want to hire people with the skills but yes it's a split between the employer developing your skills and if needed into other areas by maybe providing training, time off to study, paying for exams etc if they are applicable to your job. I also think it's also for the employee to keep their skills up to date as well. Again this is off topic.

 

No, you're right; I don't have your point of view. You have the point of view of someone who has sat doing nothing for 7 years waiting for your employer to train you up. I have the point of view of someone who has already HAD a successful career, been a senior network admin, trains techs how to be techs, and recommends candidates for hire.

I'm not trying to be "superior" to you. I'm trying to say that the advice I'm giving you is worth considering, because it's worked for me and it's worked for a blue million other techs out there who have taken this same advice.

It absolutely does work like that. It's worked for me and just about every senior-level tech on this forum. I can't be a server admin who hasn't ever worked on Sharepoint, study a bunch of books, and expect to get an Sharepoint admin position doing nothing but administer Sharepoint. Know why? Because I'll be competing against a ton of people who DO have that experience! But if Sharepoint interests me, I COULD get a server admin job in a company that DOES use Sharepoint. While there, I can start getting experience with it, perhaps even certifying on it. At that point, I *can* get a Sharepoint admin job, because then I'll have the experience that employers desire.

If this isn't "how the world works", I would ask any senior-level tech who disagrees with me to please speak up and set me straight.

Then you should listen to my positive advice. I'm not saying that you can't make it. I'm saying that your plan is flawed... but all is not lost, because I have the solution to your problem, if only you will listen.

 

I take real offense about that statement. You don't know me or know my background. I've worked for some very big companies in the role I was hired for and never given the opportunity to progress from my job in other areas and it certainly wasn't through a lack of trying. I work in an area where IT is limited and I don't have that luxury to pick and choose who I work for. I'm under no illusion I will find it hard to get a job but my hope is that a company will take me on going off my previous experience and me certifying in Sharepoint and allow me to get exposure to it. I have spent a lot of money in my career and have servers and technet account and don't see how I can't learn and get a job in Sharepoint. By my understanding I shouldn't be learning Exchange or possibly of dne my 70-291 exam to finish off my MCSA as I've never used RRAS or WSUS that the exam covers.

I do want peoples advise but but leave the getting a job to me and sticking to advice I'm asking for. I wished I didn't bother posting now.

 

How can he get server administrator job? He is then competing with tones of other people with more experience than he has got?
Am asking this as I heard different stories on developing career in IT. It all in the end looks to me like just pure luck that in company where you work, you get opportunity to do more than what was your job at start. If company doesn't give opportunity you leave and pray that in other company will be possible to do more and progress to other level...
Maybe that is how OP lost 7 years - sounds absurd but it could be like that.

PS
I replied on last post on previous page and wasn't aware of OP last reply.
Any way, it shows I made a good guess.

 

Sly, you've told me what I need to know in your OP. By your own words, your career is "going down the tubes", and you've worked for 7 years to the maximum of a 2nd line tech. In later posts, you whine about not being given training by your employer, yet you haven't taken it upon yourself in 7 years to change that. And now that you ARE willing to take it upon yourself to train yourself, you don't like the advice you're hearing about getting certified with no experience. Did you come here for advice, or did you come here to just have someone tell you you're on the right path and get a motivational pat on the head?

You can take offense and have a big old pity party for yourself, or you can listen to the advice you've been given. The choice is yours. You have all the information you need.

 

If he has server administration experience, he should get the MCSA. If he doesn't have server administration experience, he ought to get a desktop support job where he CAN get server administration experience... THEN he can eventually get a server admin job.

I've said this earlier, if you would read my previous posts...

It very well could be like that. But after a certain amount of time, you should take your career into your own hands. If that means switching jobs where you can get the experience you desire, that's what you should do.

 

I've really held off saying it but your an idiot. As I stated I've never had the opportunity to move on within a company or to train. As for whining (as you put it) I have never whined about not being trained only said companies should give some help in training wether it's time off or courses so don't twist my words. Go stick your advice. I posted here for helpfull advice on what I could do to help me further my career and all I've had off you is negative comments and insults. Instead of helping you have put down my career and insulted me saying I've sat and wasted 7 years by being lazy. If you have nowt postive to say or constructive then keep your mouth shut.

 

I am sorry mate but.... if you don't have the opportunity to move within a company then you change the company you work for, you have to understand that the only person who gives a flaming damn about your career is.... YOU! It's not in the interest of a company to train or promote someone up if that person doesn't show the inclination to do it themselves, if after 7 years you show no outward signs of wanting to improve your job standing why would any company want to help you out?

I agree with Michael and if you call me an idiot then so be it but I for one wouldn't have sat by for 7 years being a 2nd line engineer (infact I didn't, in the last 7 years I have gone from being a 2nd line engineer to being a Technical Architect\Solutions Architect\Consultant. The only person that I can thank for that?? ME! because I got off my arse, got my certifications and got the jobs that would allow my career to move up to where it is today.

As far as your location goes, there are two things you can do. Either stay and suffer, or move and prosper.
In the last 10 years I have lived in London, Cambridge, Farnham, Basingstoke, Luxembourg, London, Essex (three different locations). I have worked in Cambridge, London (way too many jobs), Basingstoke, Watford, Maidenhead, Norwich, Luxembourg and Frankfurt. During some of those times admittedly I was single but I am now a married father with a 3 year old and I can still spend upto 4 hours a day commuting.

Just because there might not be work near you doesn't mean that there aren't jobs out there that you could travel to.

Oh and if two senior level engineers are giving you the same type of advice then perhaps, JUST PERHAPS, it's because they know what the f**k they are talking about.

 

I'm not going to join the bandwagon (although I somewhat agree with BM and Simon).

@OP: My bet would be on as you say: SharePoint, SCE (or System Center tools in general).
Database administration is hard to get into. In my opinion DBA is something you have to do as a side job (shadowing, helping out) for years until you could actually pursue DBA career (be it Oracle or SQL Server).

But as I said I can see System Center tools and Sharepoint becoming big players soon (time to brush up Sharepoint skills SimonD and you'll be laughing).
Also backing up data is always something in demand (and DR as well).

 

Its getting hot in here so take off all your ...........
<Sorry got carried away after a few evening beverages>

 

Slypie, your last post was submitted in anger. Never post on forums if you are feeling agitated, it just makes you look bad and will certainly lead to an infraction should it happen again.

You may not agree with BM but what he is saying sounds pretty good advice to me. He is trying to help you and because he isn't agreeing with you, you're finding it offensive.

Even if you don't agree with him or others, there is no need to 'argue'.. all you need to do is say, thanks for the advice guys, i will take it on board and give it due consideration.

 

That would be superb but problem here is that there are too many people applying for the same job (am applying myself) and nowadays it is not so easy to move around as it used to be. People do get stuck. There are people who are 2 years without work! I think that there was a lots of missunderstanding here and it wasn't useful to play psychologists.
I am interested in this topic because of advice on progression (i believe, many others are as well) but I think it should be more tailored according to current climate because slypie would be stuck there forever. Everyone knows that they have to change job but if there are no jobs what then?
This is the main point of the OP

And to me it looks that only solution is to relocate to find job to get experience...
I understand that 7 years is long time but I wouldn't be judgemental as I don't know circumstances slypie lives in and it is off topic, but that is mentality of this forum to be judgemental

 

Fair post!
Just I wish I could see more of you before on some threads when BM was not so nice though here he is not perfect but quite good how he can be.

 

As far as advice goes I would suggest doing the Exchange exams next, assuming you have at least enough server knowledge to go with it to include DNS, WINS, GC, AD, Sites and Services etc. I know Exchange is a common cert to have and thats the point, you can't just start in a new direction without some experience (I.E Oracle, Sharepoint) so by having a good foundation you can get in with a company and then learn some of the other technologies they have.

As I have moved up and around in my career, the companies also get bigger with more potential to learn and move away from the "common" skillset. Currently should I want to I can now sideways move into DBA/Oracle, full on networking/Cisco, etc however I stick with infrastructure and virtualisation as that interests me the most.

This just seems to be the way things work at least in my experience. There is no chance what so ever that you or me could just learn say for example Oracle and get a job as a DBA with no experience because without seeing it in production you cannot learn it regardless of certs, books, CBTs, etc.

I agree with what almost everyone has said on here and I think in terms of progression its just about identifying on a regular basis what is the limiting factor in your own development, yourself or the company you work for. If you have plenty of learning opportunities where you are then soak it up and push yourself. If there are no opportunities and your abilities exceed the work your doing, time to move on.

I will admit though I have done the same thing previously of staying with a company for 6 years, constantly pushing them for progression knowing I was more than capable but never given the opportunities I wanted. But I have learnt from this (you never realise it at the time) and wouldn't make the same mistake twice.

Good luck and to add if I was really unhappy in a job, regardless of the money (so longs I have some funds to live) I would resign too, in fact I have done it before.

 

I think the main point trying to be put across Slypie, is that you could go ahead and do some certs in other areas that you have no direct experience of, and no doubt you would pass them as you obviously are an experienced IT professional and that experience can apply to things you have never even touched before.

The only problem is, if you were to spend your hard earned cash on training in new areas, then went to compete at job interviews against people who had a few years of experience (in say sharepoint or oracle), then I don't think you would have much of a chance against them in that situation.

Perhaps going for a job that draws upon skills and experience you already have (possibly outside the area you live in) then making a sideways move in that company might be something to try? I guess you would have to pick the job carefully to make sure it was the kind of place were progression into another area is possible.

I do generally agree with BM's points, but I do think his delivery of said points can sometimes leave a lot to be desired.

p.s. Good luck with whatever you decide to do matey.

 

Sorry Blue rinse I disagree and stick by my comment. Maybe you should read the way he has posted his comments to me before threatening me with a warning. I appreciate all advice and am polite but the way he trys to shove his advise down your throat and the way he gets his point over is unhelpfull. He has slagged me off and goaded me by saying it's my fault and I've done nothing in 7 years which is simply not true. Then he further goads me saying I'm whining. The bloke has just ripped me apart and you want me to say thanks for that great advise mate much appreciated. By his account it's don't bother doing owt so I'll fill that form in to flip burgers then. I stick by what I said. I didn't post to be slagged off or for him to think he knows my circumstances. I posted for advise to ask people what type of things I could do to help my career and all it's done is to be counter productive.

I've been a member of this forum for years and whilst I give advise if I feel I can to people I certainly don't do it in the manner he does.

.

 

Yeah totally agree what I'm hoping for is to still study an area to be able to move on as whats the alternative for me? I'm hoping to study say Sharepoint and muddle on in what I do and hopefully end up being able to shuffle into a change of direction. I know it's going to be hard and will take time but with having experience I'm hoping to be able to transfer my skills.