1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Braindumps and Braindumpers

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by ffreeloader, Feb 1, 2006.

  1. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

    3,661
    106
    167
    Ok. This is a combination of a rant and a serious, heartfelt question.

    On another forum, of which I am a member, someone posted several questions from a known braindump site, and asked for clarification as to whether the answers given on the braindump site were correct.

    I sort of went off on him. Well, not sort of, I did. Here is someone claiming to be working in a Linux environment on a daily basis asking for clarification to answers on an entry level Linux certification: Linux+.

    What I did was tell him he would get no help from me and that he ought to get a life, stop cheating, and earn his certs the right way. After he called me a couple of names for saying that to him I told him that anyone who claimed to work with *nix on a regular basis and couldn't figure out the answers to entry level questions really didn't have a clue, and that he was not only cutting his own throat by braindumping but the throats of all those who earn their certs the right way.

    I detest braindumper, i.e. cheaters, because they have to a great degree invalidated the years of my life I put into earning my certifications. If not for braindumpers my certs would have gotten me a job a long time ago because I can't tell you how many HR and heads of IT departments I've talked to simply blew me off because of people who walked through their doors with braindumped certifications. I resent those who have done so much to invalidate what I worked so hard to accomplish.

    Am I right or wrong to confront braindumpers? Should they just be ignored, or even worse in my book, have their questions politely answered? I'm really curious as to how people see this issue as it is quite obviously a hot button issue with me as the last two options I gave seem, to me, to validate braindumpers and their cheating practices....

    If you think braindumpers should be treated politely tell me why. If you think braindumpers should not be "called onto the carpet", so-to-speak, explain why. I'm really curious as to how other/most people think on this subject as I know I'm sort of a dinosaur with respect to ethical issues in today's societies.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
    WIP: LPIC 1
  2. d-Faktor
    Honorary Member

    d-Faktor R.I.P - gone but never forgotten.

    810
    0
    39
    well, you already know how i think about this, freddy, but i'll repeat it anyway.

    in my opinion braindumpers should be burned at the stake. they should be covered in tar and feathers, and driven out of town. they should be attacked openly and with force. i'm so sick and tired of people willingly cheating their way into a company. when they get busted, and fired, it decreases the value of the certification. since it is the certification that is accepted as proof of competence, they harm others who have obtained the very same certification through hard work.

    having said that, it is important that you first find out whether the person even knows what braindumps are. back in the day when i started with the whole cert thing, i have used a braindump for the w95 exam, or was it the nt4 wks exam, i don't remember. i'm not ashamed to admit that, because at that time i didn't have a clue what a braindump was. i'd never heard of it. i thought it was just another test exam. only when i noticed that a couple of questions on the actual exam were very similar to the ones i had read in the 'test exam', it started to dawn on me. "hang on, that ain't right."
     
  3. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

    3,661
    106
    167
    That's a good point. The ignorant-of-what-a-braindump-is shouldn't be maligned if they stop braindumping as soon as they realize what they are doing. If they knowingly do it though that's another story altogether.

    The guy today knew he was braindumping though. He was going to do it no matter what anyone said to him because when confronted he got angry and defended his use of braindumps. He very well knew what they were.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
    WIP: LPIC 1
  4. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

    5,239
    211
    236
    I guess for the new guys they may not realise what braindumps are. You search the Web for practice questions, you get both and it's not always obvious which is which.

    As you say though, the real thing is to notice that something isn't right when you sit the exam...
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  5. tripwire45
    Honorary Member

    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

    13,493
    179
    287
    Freddy's right, here. I'm aware of the situation he's talking about and the fellow in question is no newbie. He knew what he was doing.
     
    Certifications: A+ and Network+
  6. Arroryn
    Honorary Member

    Arroryn we're all dooooooomed

    4,009
    186
    209
    It does depend on the situation of the person, as to how you treat it IMHO.

    If this guy claims to work in a *nix environment, you were highly entitled to have a go. This guy isn't just doing himself an indignity, he's completely disrespecting an industry where a lot of people study bloody hard all the time to get where they want, and stay there.

    If someone is blatantly new to studying online or to the IT industry, then they should be gently steered away. Explain that becoming a robot capable of memorising answer and spilling them out by rote qualifies them to do nothing more than sweep floors, clean toilets and lick a proper certified tech's boots.

    Well, maybe be more gentle than that, but you get the gist.

    They shouldn't be coddled, and their questions really shouldn't be answered directly. Are there any governing bodies over this that they can be directed to, other than the Cert companies themselves? For example, do Comptia and Cisco actually have people police the internet to take these sites down?
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, 70-410, 70-411
    WIP: Modern Languages BA
  7. zimbo
    Honorary Member

    zimbo Petabyte Poster

    5,215
    98
    181
    I would like to add my euros worth here.. i hate them both! It devalues MY cert i am working so hard for and its make me more worthless and difficult to get a job! I would be very interested to know why companies like microsoft dont just sit on google one day type test**** or any other company and start closing them down online one by one.. im sure its possible and they all listed online so it wont be difficult!
     
    Certifications: B.Sc, MCDST & MCSA
    WIP: M.Sc - Computer Forensics
  8. Malnomates

    Malnomates Megabyte Poster

    667
    25
    67
    Hi all.I'm currently studying for my A+.Not looking for shortcuts and quick results,actually studying hard.It feels good to apply myself,it feels good to know that I have a focus,that all the many,many hours of study,sometimes frustration and hard work
    will achieve my current goal.These people who use braindumps to achieve that goal have little more than a piece of paper to show for it.No uderstanding of anything 'learned',no idea of how to implement the knowledge they claim to possess and no sense of achievement.I don't take insult lightly and these people are insulting us all.

    Personally,I'd like to see some sort of litigation against these sites and the individuals responsible for them.There is surely infringement to copyright,theft of data or whatever interpretation the law pursues.

    Rant over,my apologies,but thats of my chest now.
     
    Certifications: A+ Network+
  9. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

    3,661
    106
    167
    This is one more way that braindumpers cheat themselves. They will never know the satisfaction that comes from applying themselves to a real goal and then acheiving that goal through dedication, sacrifice, and hard work.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
    WIP: LPIC 1
  10. Clyde

    Clyde Megabyte Poster

    558
    15
    62
    do you really think they care, or even understand freddie ?
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA, MCSE
    WIP: MCITP
  11. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

    3,661
    106
    167
    Whether they care or understand it is immaterial. The end result is the same.

    An analogy is if I'm a little kid that doesn't understand that a hot stove burner will burn me if I touch it, and I touch it, will it not burn me because I didn't understand the consequences?

    When a person works hard, exerts the necessary self-discipline, and completes a difficult task there is a reward that follows: a very deserved sense of satisfaction. It's so true it's almost a law of human psychology. Now, whether or not a person cares about that law, or understands it, it is still in effect because that person has human psychology.... The braindumper denies himself/herself this reward and in so doing cheats himself/herself out of this reward.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
    WIP: LPIC 1
  12. Sparky
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

    10,189
    296
    319
    A guy I work with recently took an MCP exam after ‘studying’ some braindumps from a well known website, he still failed.

    The topic of braindumps came up with my boss the same day and I was glad to hear that he detests them; he has MCSE NT4 certification and told me that he studied the honest way to get it.

    Back to topic I hope there is more legal action against sites who host the braindumps, at least that should reduce their availability. People who use braindumps to pass certs will probably not go too far in the IT industry (I hope!), surely they won’t have the skills for some technical projects. :x
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Exchange 2007\2010
  13. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

    8,871
    167
    256
    I believe that for some people it is a means to an end. For those that only want the certification in order to maybe get a salary increase or some other financial benefit.

    I know for a fact that people on the MOC courses I did used braindumps. Not all of them but some of them. One guy was quite a bright spark and he gave me a CD which was full of braindumps. I had one quick look and it was as clear as daylight to me that these were not kosher study material. I never looked at them again but what I did see, was actual questions. The blurb boasted that they were actual questions along with the answer.

    Now, although this annoyed me, it didn't upset me enough to dob this guy in. In fact he was a nice guy and so I just thought let him do as he wishes, he is the one that is going to suffer. That was in 2002 and a lot has changed since then.

    Three years and seven tough exams later, I have a slightly different outlook on dumpers. Now I know how tough it is to get through the MCSE or other IT exams without cheating. Now, they really irritate me. It saddens me that when I hear of someone doing an MCSE, I immediately think they are going to braindump their way through. The dumpers have contaminated *my* perception of MCSE as well as potential employers.

    Once I couldn't care less what other people did, if they wanted to cheat, so be it. But now, I know they have hurt me, they have devalued what I achieved honestly and that is more than a tad annoying.

    Freddy, I don't think you can win in a head to head with a dumper. They will always try and justify their actions, that is natural but I don't think you should help them either, would you help your enemy?

    The only thing you can say that sums it all up and makes a really good point in two words is...

    Braindumper = cheat!
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  14. Aureilius

    Aureilius Byte Poster

    118
    1
    22
    I think that, for a complete nood (such as myself) ,studying & then realising that people are able to cheat their way into the cert is possibly a bit disheartening & may give us 'first certers' the feeling of studying for a possibly meaningless cert.

    Fortunately, there ARE ethical cert sites (such as this one) which point out that you may well be tested on your knowledge/competence during the interview & so may comtinue your studies, safe in the knowledge that the fakers will most likley not get past the first interview.

    If I'd read a report in a paper stating that employers were becoming suspicious of certs, & there was no balance of opinion on the subject, I may well have thought 'ah, sod it'

    So rock on CF for informing the masses :D
     
    Certifications: None
    WIP: A+
  15. _omni_

    _omni_ Megabyte Poster

    647
    10
    62
    ...three words :tune
     
    Certifications: MCSE 2003, MCSA:M
  16. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

    8,871
    167
    256
    Two words and a sign then :tongue
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  17. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

    3,661
    106
    167
    I think you mistake my intentions. Confronting braindumpers to me is not about "winning" or "losing". It's about letting them know just how much many people detest what they do. Is not silence on the matter the same as approval? The braindumper/cheater draws implied consent from silence, and there is far too much silence on matters of ethics in our societies.

    The second point in confronting braindumpers is so that all who read can know braindumping is not acceptable behavior. While that will not deter the person who is set on cheating rather than learning, it very well may keep the person who may be considering the option of cheating but isn't dead set on it.

    If someone who braindumps considers me a "tool", such as the guy from the other forum did this morning, for opposing braindumps vocally that doesn't bother me in the slightest. Why? I have no respect for him because of his dishonesty. I also don't value his ability to make decisions because he seems incapable of understanding the value of long-term thinking. He is ignorant enough to think that a cert without knowledge is worth something in the long run.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
    WIP: LPIC 1
  18. law123

    law123 Byte Poster

    189
    0
    33
    Well I think the problem lies when the tests are taken if it was a written exam as well as a multiple choice exam. There would be no problem as the CHEATS would be found out then and there so no braindumps would help there. If I am wrong about multiple choice questions on all exams I am sorry. You can correct me if this is the case.
     
    Certifications: None
    WIP: A+
  19. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

    8,871
    167
    256
    Well mate, *we*, meaning people like us that actually do possess an ounce of integrity, may be in the minority. But I for one, will stand alongside you and defend our morally high stance against any cheater. I will do my bit to make other people aware of what these nefarious, dubious, unscrupulous, contemptible, devious, deceiving, immoral, despicable dumpers are up to. They are but mere charlatans on a mission to delude the world. We shall conquer, because the truth will out :dry
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  20. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

    2,397
    99
    154
    Hopefully it will become less common in the future as there seems to be an increase in simulation / live environment style questions. It won't make things foolproof but it will help.

    As for is it right to confront and ridicule these idiots .... damn right it is!
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCP, MCDST, MCSA 2K3, MCTS, MOS, MTA, MCT, MCITP:EDST7, MCSA W7, Citrix CCA, ITIL Foundation
    WIP: Nada

Share This Page

Loading...