beginner

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This training adviser told me that as well, but that it was a good qualification and entry point. I am doing the A+ just for the purpose of it covering a lot of essential parts of general computing, so that if/when I have the qualification, I can feel compfy about moving into programming because the topic interests me, and I done a little basic software development at college, and probably for the fact that I'm already doing the A+ deciding through it that I want to enter programming, but if I find myself half way into programming, and finding out that it really isn't for me, I can continue on with my + path branching out into Security or Network +

I don't want to give it up to start programming if I don't like it, and to start A+ again. Would it affect job possibilities with both qualifications?

 

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You cant have to many qualifications if you can handle both fine. As for programming I suggest you tip your toe in first and if it gives you a buss take it further. You can get some very usefull help here on CF.

 

It is a good qualification and entry point... for techs, not programmers.

So... you can believe what a training adviser who wants to sell you courses tells you... or you can believe those of us who are in the industry and stand to gain nothing from telling you the truth.

Good point - that's a logical reason for continuing the A+... not because it'll help you be a programmer... but because it gives you a head-start on another path, should you decide you don't like programming.

That said... the time you're investing in the A+ could be time better spent on learning to program. Having a backup plan is great... but you won't know you like programming until you try it... why delay? Figure it out NOW so you can get a job SOONER rather than later. Every month you're not in IT is another month of real-world experience lost.

Techs don't program, and programmers don't tech. It's two different IT jobs, mate. It'd be like applying to be an auto mechanic, and saying that you've got experience selling cars... the mechanic doesn't sell cars, and the car salesman doesn't fix them.

So would it affect job possibilities? I doubt it. Personally, if you listed both of them on your CV and applied for a job I was hiring for, I'd think you didn't know what you really wanted to do in IT. If you do decide to get them both, use the A+ for applying for techie jobs, and the programming certs for applying for programmer jobs.

 

Not always entirely true! I'm a programmer, and set up a successful tech help desk at some computer fairs.

But I grant you that it is mostly true!

Harry.

 

But your job doesn't revolve around being a tech. Some techs do basic scripting... but it by no means makes them programmers.

Plus... you've been in the industry so long, you can't help but know how to be a tech, should the need arise.

 

People don't live in little boxes, suggested Job Roles are exactly that, 'Job Roles', its more than possible and in many companies you will find people that play multiple roles.

I know many people that program and set up hardware on a regular basis.

I know a programmer who is CCIE, others who both code and configure VOIP systems, I know architects that advise on both disciplines, embedded developers who design, build and program the hardware, the works as narrow or as varied as you want it to be...

Larger organisations tend to have stricter rules but again it depends on the department, R&D departments even in huge corporations can feel like small companies. The divisions that exist are because in reality you can't expect everyone to know everything, and even if they do they are going to become a bottleneck, compaines need lines of communication, division of labour, processes, rules and regulations etc.

Much of the advice on this forum is given from the view of the corporate IT helpdesk, while that may be the lions share of IT jobs, thats not the whole story by any means.

Much of the entire field of IT was created by Mathematicians, Physicists, Electronics Engineers and entusiastic amateurs, they did pretty well without worrying about programmer/tech labels...

 

...but as much as you want to spin it, most techs don't program, and most programmers don't tech. The jobs aren't in "little boxes", as you put it - techs aren't JUST PC techs... they work on printers, laptops, WAPs, servers, etc. And they might even do a little scripting or Cisco router configurations (which is NOT programming by a long shot!). But they aren't asked to program.

Eh, that's not the point of view I'm coming from. I've been an in-house tech, and I've been an hourly consultant for external customers. I've supported small companies, and I've supported large multinational corporations. And most of the companies I've worked for employ programmers and Web devs. And they don't tech! Most of my outside-of-work friends are programmers... and THEY don't tech. And NONE of my old techie co-workers have programmed anything larger than a KIX script or simple AD batch file.

So this isn't just the shielded view of a single individual... the vast majority of programmers simply don't work on techie stuff for most of their job, and the vast majority of techs simply don't program for most of their job... certainly not enough to get trained and certified on that stuff! There are exceptions... but with everything I've seen and heard over the past 10 years, they are rare.

So please, don't give someone who is just starting out in IT some faulty information about what a VERY small handful of techs/programmers do... They'll craft their careers around those hopes, and they'll come to find that most IT jobs simply don't work that way.

 

The A+ is in no way required, but if they enjoy and want to study the material I see no harm, much of the same material appears on some college degree courses which programmers take. Computer architecture is a common module.

While I have to agree it is a minority it does not mean it does not happen.

The people who started Cisco were Electronics engineers, they designed and built routers with an embedded OS ?

Linus Torvalds wrote the Linux kernel in his bedroom, where does he work now ? Transmeta a micro chip manufacturer.

Tim Berners Lee developed the beginning of the WWW, he was a Physicist at CERN !

Sometimes the stereotypes are useful, sometimes they are not...

The information is not faulty its based on my real life experience as an analyst/developer/architect in multiple industries over 14 years, many people particularly in embedded have to get their hands dirty with both hardware and software.

Ever heard of the Automation or Control and Instrumentation industries ? Theres also many others like this that require both skillsets.

I used to have to set up signal generators and other hardware to run tests on our custom built computer in one job !

I know people in telecoms that generaly do management and hardware monitoring and currently they are coding in perl.

Many admins also write various scripts, look at Windows Powershell, UNIX shell scripts, various monitoring solutions, configuration, the areas are really not as distinct as you think...

The divisions exist in the labour market largely for personnel and company reasons, and even then pick a certain sector like I said and the argument can quickly break down.

Take your industry training for example, the MS book i'm reading on development is co-authored by two MCSE's !

I say if someone wants to study something let them, A+ is close enough to the subject matter not to distract from a CV. I agree it might be an unnecesary diversion for someone who is purely interested in software, but in that case I wouldn't expect them to be studying it in the first place!

In short if you want to be a programmer yes learn to program well ASAP, a good general grounding is also important, so an understanding of architecture and hardware is advisable, however you don't necessarily need a certification for this.

 

I never said getting the A+ would cause harm... I said it wouldn't necessarily help, and would certainly delay his getting started in programming.

 

Im with dmarsh26 on this when he says "Ican see no harm in it " he dosnt mean actual harm, but can see nothing wrong in it. both statements have the same meaning. At entry level he may just as well keep the A+ going whilest playing around with programming, theres no harm in it (nothing wrong) and he will quickley work out which route he wants to go down. I am doing this myself its just the ballance that changes it was 4 days A+ got into programming and its now 1 day A+ 3days programming.

 

Code:

#include <iostream>
using namespace std;

int main()
{
int letters;letters = 'a','b','c';
cout<< "a=0" <<'a'<<" ";
cout<< "b=1" <<'b'<<" ";
cout<< "c=2" <<'c';
return 0;
}

hi why does this print a = a0
and not a = 0 as I was expecting

 

When I try it I get:

Code:

a=0a b=1b c=2c

which is what I would expect.

You might want to check the results and the code are as you have reported.

Harry.

 

Hi Harry
no,thats correct my result report the same as yours. I was just expecting it to report a=0 not a=0a, not explaining this very well am I.

 

Ah!

Well - you are explicitly printing the character 'a' in the cout line - which is why it is appearing.

Harry.