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Asking for a Raise

Discussion in 'Employment & Jobs' started by mcrilly, Jun 25, 2011.

  1. mcrilly

    mcrilly Byte Poster

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    Hello all.

    I'm looking for some advice. I started working for my current employer, a multi-national company, in December 2010. At the end of this year I will have completed a single year's service with no issues, having learnt a lot from on-the-job training and situations, but I would have also, I hope, gained my CCNA and LPIC-1 also.

    Hypothetically, let's say it's now January 2012 and I have my CCNA and LPIC-1, do you think I can safely ask for a raise? My colleagues tell me that we get a £1,000 raise per year anyway (at least in IT) and as my job is an entry-level position, my wage falls well short of £20,000/year. I want more and I feel, genuinely, as though I have worked hard enough to warrant more.

    Do I deserve more? Should I feel comfortable asking for more? From the experiences of those on the forum who work in management and are directly involved in recruitment of some sort, do you think I have a case for asking for more? What kind of opposition could I potentially face? What can I do to further augment my case and increase my chances of of getting a "yes?"

    All input appreciated.
     
    Certifications: CCENT
    WIP: CCNA, RHCE, & VCP
  2. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Only you know that mate.

    For all we know, you could be a complete be11 3nd.

    :biggrin
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  3. mcrilly

    mcrilly Byte Poster

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    Hahaha! Well that's a fair point ;-)

    Mind you, I do hope my employer takes a much more objective look at my request, rather than reviewing their personal feelings about me. Although I can't promise that I'm not a "b3ll 3nd" at times! :D
     
    Certifications: CCENT
    WIP: CCNA, RHCE, & VCP
  4. ChrisH1979

    ChrisH1979 Byte Poster

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    It's very hard to say without knowing the particular dynamics of the company. One thing you need to do is have some good evidence of why you are worth a pay rise such as particular projects you have completed well or if you have come up with new ideas which have changed things for the better. Other reasons would be that you are progressing faster than people do normally at that particular role and have evidence of work completed well, or that is well above the level of your current role. Gaining certifications can help as long as your employer sees the worth of these and they can be linked to other points above.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2011
    Certifications: MCITP:SA, MCSA, MCTS:Win 7, Application Infrastructure
    WIP: MCITP:EA
  5. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    Hi, my 2 cents. Do you get overtime and on call do you mind me asking? I've met a few people in my career who aren't happy with their base salary, what they leave off is that they actually double this with OT and on call...... That is not to say that you shouldn't ask for a raise in that scenario.

    Evidence is the key here, never ask for a raise until you've organised some evidence of times you've gone above and beyond, solved a major issue, passed your exams etc etc. Also print out your objectives for 2011 and make sure you exceed them as this is what they are for. I am assuming you've been set some kind of annual objectives?
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  6. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    Post Of The Year - hands-down :biggrin

    FWIW, I agree with the sentiment - you know how much you're worth. Do the usual - check market rates in your area for the job you do, and for the next job 'up the ladder'. Tell them you think you're worth keeping on and giving a raise, or promoting. Failing that, let them know you might seek pastures new if you're still doing the same thing, for the same money, after whatever time period you think is reasonable. of course, if, as Jonny says, you're a complete bell-end, then this might not be a successful tactic, as they'll probably be glad to see you go :)

    I'm sure you're not, though - so tell 'em what you're worth!
     
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em
  7. SimonD

    SimonD Terabyte Poster Moderator

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    I would also like to add that whilst work is starting to look up don't forget that in reality we are still in a recession, the company I work for have in the past 9 years ALWAYS paid bonuses, that is until last year when for the first time in the history of the company that they didn't. This year it's still unknown whether anyone will be getting a bonus this time around, general consensus however is that they won't.

    My advice would be to accept what ever you're given (if anything), just because you gained a couple of certifications doesn't automatically imply that you should also get a pay rise, I would simply be happy that you're actually in a job.

    Personally speaking and if I were in your shoes I would be asking myself whether I liked working at the company and if I did then stay working there, if I didn't then I would look to be moving on, don't put too much stock in salary because you shouldn't be working at a company based on monetary rewards alone.
     
    Certifications: CNA | CNE | CCNA | MCP | MCP+I | MCSE NT4 | MCSA 2003 | Security+ | MCSA:S 2003 | MCSE:S 2003 | MCTS:SCCM 2007 | MCTS:Win 7 | MCITP:EDA7 | MCITP:SA | MCITP:EA | MCTS:Hyper-V | VCP 4 | ITIL v3 Foundation | VCP 5 DCV | VCP 5 Cloud | VCP6 NV | VCP6 DCV | VCAP 5.5 DCA
    WIP: VCP6-CMA, VCAP-DCD and Linux + (and possibly VCIX-NV).
  8. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    I agree with Simon. Ask about it but dont get too cheeky, if they say no I'd look to leave. I certainly wouldn't ever tell an employer that if they don't look after me I'm off but thats just me. I'd ask they did look after me and if not I'd hand my notice once I'd accepted a job somewhere else. If you say you might go else where before securing another role they could make you life hell and you are stuck there
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  9. mcrilly

    mcrilly Byte Poster

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    My thoughts exactly.

    We're lucky, as a company, that we're privately owned by a single person; there is no board or share holders to answer too - we're doing quit well, in fact.

    I am very happy where I work, actually. I love the job as I get to play with all kinds of stuff and experiment like crazy. That is a big bonus and, in hindsight, something of a handsome payment in its own right. But I have bills to pay (don't we all?) and debts to clear.

    The old chestnut, "you're lucky to have a job" doesn't wash anymore. There is plenty of work out there. I got my IT job after a week of looking for one - it's not hard, really. Even if IT work isn't available, I see plenty of work advertised for various fields, making this point moot.

    I think for the time being I will stick with what I get, if anything, and be happy with it. Once I have a few years of experience from the place I shall consider moving on.

    Thank you for all input.
     
    Certifications: CCENT
    WIP: CCNA, RHCE, & VCP
  10. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    Sounds like you have done well to land a networking job. I don't suppose you could tell us how you managed it, what certs or qualifications you had to get into networking please? I think it could be valuable for our members trying to break into IT.

    I'm from Liverpool too and thought the city had practically no IT jobs apart from the odd big company so its good to hear there's jobs here
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  11. mcrilly

    mcrilly Byte Poster

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    Hello! I actually live in Runcorn, but I am originally from Liverpool (Speke).

    I had, until the 14th of June, no certifications at all. I looked around and noticed an entry level job in Deeside, Wales (only 20 minutes away from Runcorn), so I applied and got the job. I'm an entry-level systems and network administrator now.

    I think the problem with a lot of people is a poor CV (mine isn't the best thing since sliced bread, but it's targeted and well thought out) and lack of confidence in an interview. Another issue, also, is people assuming they can't do a particular job because of a set of acronyms or a term being used in the advert - it puts them off because they don't believe they can do that job. I applied for this job when it asked for Linux, networking and Cisco experience - I had none on a commercial level.

    Just go for it. Target your CV to the company and the job, throw in a cover letter that does the same job, and get an interview. They might not offer you that job, but they could offer you another one that gets your foot in the door.

    I hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2011
    Certifications: CCENT
    WIP: CCNA, RHCE, & VCP
  12. SimonD

    SimonD Terabyte Poster Moderator

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    You mean you didn't try and work for Lilly if you're from Speke?

    As far as your quote here
    I think you're quite lucky because trust me there are people on here who would argue that infact it's not quite as easy as you think it is.

    Finding work can actually be quite difficult to do, whether you're new to IT or been in it for years and have experience coming out of your ears (trust me, I do well in the work I do) but even so there are times that even the best people find it hard (in the last 2 years I spent 6 months out of work, trust me when I say that that's never happened to me in my IT career and shouldn't have happened then).

    I would also suggest that give yourself another couple of years and you may have to start looking elsewhere to get decent rates (as an example I commute 5+ hours a day now for a perm position, why? because the salary was simply too good to ignore), there are people on here who have upped sticks and moved elsewhere to get better paying roles (I even left the country for a couple of years to work in Investment Banking IT to get better banking experience).

    Just because you got lucky this time doesn't mean it will happen on your next position.
     
    Certifications: CNA | CNE | CCNA | MCP | MCP+I | MCSE NT4 | MCSA 2003 | Security+ | MCSA:S 2003 | MCSE:S 2003 | MCTS:SCCM 2007 | MCTS:Win 7 | MCITP:EDA7 | MCITP:SA | MCITP:EA | MCTS:Hyper-V | VCP 4 | ITIL v3 Foundation | VCP 5 DCV | VCP 5 Cloud | VCP6 NV | VCP6 DCV | VCAP 5.5 DCA
    WIP: VCP6-CMA, VCAP-DCD and Linux + (and possibly VCIX-NV).
  13. mcrilly

    mcrilly Byte Poster

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    Who? What? Eh? :eek:

    As far as your quote here

    I do consider my self lucky, yes. However I was referring to any work at all, in any field.

    Yes I think I might. The reason I think I might be lucky enough to get a raise is simply because my now boss went from £13k in the same position as me, to £24k in three years. -shrug-

    Thanks for the input.
     
    Certifications: CCENT
    WIP: CCNA, RHCE, & VCP
  14. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    Small world, I am from North Liverpool and work in Runcorn ha ha Well done, good luck to ya I say. I think Simon is right tho, its almost unheard of for someone to go from nothing to networking because its considered pretty much a top job support wise. I'm glad you managed it tho. A few years time 24k won't seem like much ;)
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  15. SimonD

    SimonD Terabyte Poster Moderator

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    Ely Lilly, the big pharma on the outskirts of Speke (big smelly factory), unless of course they have moved their manufacturing plant from there.

    Unfortunately the more you have on your CV the harder it is to try and walk into dead end jobs because all it takes is one look at a CV and you know that the first chance they have to move on they will do, that puts a lot of people off recruiting experienced people for lesser positions (again, it's something I have seen regularly and even trying to persuade them otherwise is usually pointless).
     
    Certifications: CNA | CNE | CCNA | MCP | MCP+I | MCSE NT4 | MCSA 2003 | Security+ | MCSA:S 2003 | MCSE:S 2003 | MCTS:SCCM 2007 | MCTS:Win 7 | MCITP:EDA7 | MCITP:SA | MCITP:EA | MCTS:Hyper-V | VCP 4 | ITIL v3 Foundation | VCP 5 DCV | VCP 5 Cloud | VCP6 NV | VCP6 DCV | VCAP 5.5 DCA
    WIP: VCP6-CMA, VCAP-DCD and Linux + (and possibly VCIX-NV).
  16. danielno8

    danielno8 Gigabyte Poster

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    I'd prefer to look on it as i was UNLUCKY if i found myself out of work for an extended period, rather than treating myself as simply LUCKY for being in a job.

    How are you ever going to get what you are worth out of a position if you constantly just look on yourself as lucky to be there?
     
    Certifications: CCENT, CCNA
    WIP: CCNP
  17. mcrilly

    mcrilly Byte Poster

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    Oh right! Where about? I live in Murdishaw.

    I certainly hope this is the case. Having a good look around online, it's difficult to get a feel for the average wage of someone in networking these days. I remember when I was 16 (I'm 26 now), looking around at IT work and it was pretty clear cut: networking = £££. Now it's all over the place; it's a tough pulse to keep your finger on.

    Let's imagine two years have passed and I now have three years experience; my CCNP (I intend to be CCNP by 2013 - I think this is a steady pace, personally) + CCSP/CCVP + LPIC-3 & RHCA/RHCE. Using today's market rates, what wage can I be looking at? Hard to say I know, but I'm sure some peeps here can give it an educated guess?

    Well given the fact it smells, and Runcorn smells, it might have moved to Runcorn :-p

    A friend of mine suffers from this. He has also found that some people find his experience, qualifications and education a threat to their position.
     
    Certifications: CCENT
    WIP: CCNA, RHCE, & VCP
  18. danielno8

    danielno8 Gigabyte Poster

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    My opinion is it depends a lot on how much experience you have in that 3 years to match those certs. If you are in a job where you were dealing with security/networking (at CCNP level) plus using red hat, all extensively during that 3 years, then i think you would be able to pull £35k-£40k.

    I had just going on 3 years experience at my last review (Nov '10) and got put on £30k. I don't deal with linux at all, and i haven't even sat my CCNA yet.
     
    Certifications: CCENT, CCNA
    WIP: CCNP
  19. Rob1234

    Rob1234 Megabyte Poster

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    Just ask for a pay raise, all they will say is no or yes.
     
    Certifications: A few.
  20. mcrilly

    mcrilly Byte Poster

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    My job, as it stands at the time of writing, necessitates the maintenance of our Cisco network, our GNU/Linux server infrastructure and the odd bit of desktop support for our users. We're a work force of about 50-60 people on this site, so our network's physical presence isn't huge (five to six access switches, a core switch, two routers and a few WAPs) and our GNU/Linux setup consists of roughly ten live GNU/Linux systems currently in use.

    Whilst my job does entail the upkeep of the aforementioned, these types of things don't need to be hugged 24/7 to stay up, so in the meantime, whilst I'm not being annoyed by users, I do get involved with projects as well. At the moment, for example, I am installing four new HP Proliant servers. This installation requires the machines to be physically installed and the OS (Debian) to be installed and setup. They're using a HP RAID controller, which is annoying as we don't want hardware RAID and we can't bypass the RAID controller because it's built into the backplane, so I've configured it to produce RAID 0s with a single drives in each, which is then placed into a software RAID 1 in Debian. The file systems will then be clustered. This is the kind of thing I get up to.

    I think given everything everyone has said, I will give it a year or two before asking for a serious raise in salary (if I haven't already received one).
     
    Certifications: CCENT
    WIP: CCNA, RHCE, & VCP

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