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Apprenta/ICS

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by Disco25, Mar 14, 2006.

  1. Disco25

    Disco25 Bit Poster

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    Today i went along for an interview with Apprenta and found them very helpful but as with all these things you always have your brain telling you to check them out fully first. That's how i came to here and read the last posting that was closed in the end.

    How are those that signed up getting on?

    I feel there are still a lot of unanswered questions and there was a lot of bashing when all people had was a bad feeling about them.

    Apprenta is actually part of ICS (London) Ltd who actually are a software company in London with sister companies abroad. ON the BAE website there is a news update where BAE have signed a deal with ICS so they are not small, they also have many banking contracts. If you dig you can find these.

    At no point did they tell me i'd be earning loads of money either, they said realistically i could expect £20k to begin with which to me sounds fair. One guy mentioned he had been on it for 12 months as classrooms were full but i was told it could be done online via a virtual classroom between 6 and 9 in the evening.
    As for the 6 months they said that's the quickest i could expect to complete it if i worked hard but that i may want to take rests and look at it being 12 months.

    I will ask to speak to current students when i call back just to confirm how they are finding it but i think there was some harsh criticism when no one had really known much about them.

    But i know i had doubts at first and some still need squashing by current students i feel but i felt some of the better facts needed putting over.
     
  2. wagnerk
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

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    Hi,

    Just a quick question...

    What course are you planning on doing with them? As some courses you can do and pass in 6 months (for example A+, N+, CCNA - MCSA maybe depends on you), other courses can take alot longer (for example MCSA maybe depends on you, CCNP depends on you, MCSE, etc)

    20k starting off... I believe that may be an average earning wage, but that does depend on where you live, experience, what field you go into, and who you work for. As starting salaries for support technicians can vary from approx £10,000 to £24,000.

    I can't say anything good or bad about them as I've never had any first person contact/dealings with them. Hopefully someone will come along and let you know about their experience(s).

    Good luck on your studies

    -Ken
     
    Certifications: CITP, PGCert, BSc, HNC, LCGI, PTLLS, MCT, MCITP, MCTS, MCSE, MCSA:M, MCSA, MCDST, MCP, MTA, MCAS, MOS (Master), A+, N+, S+, ACA, VCA, etc... & 2nd Degree Black Belt
    WIP: PGDip
  3. Disco25

    Disco25 Bit Poster

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    Hi Wagnerk,

    It's what they call an Internship with them and you gain the .net certifications. They train you to MCSA too but seeing as i have that they skip it and it reduces the amount i have to contribute as apparently ICS will be willing to invest more in me towards the training.
    I already have 3 years working for Fujitsu too so have experience i was just attracted to learning the .NET side and the work experience they are offering.
    A major part of learning any skill in IT is to have the experience of using it too as we all know.

    I'm not going to hand over any money though until i've spoken to current students and maybe a company they have placed an ex-student with.

    Hopefully i can then quash a few of the other doubters too and not joining the pack. We'll get answers though!
     
  4. Disco25

    Disco25 Bit Poster

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    Just to clear it up too, i'm not talking about the ICS 'yes you can' people who offer all sorts of courses, this ICS is International Computer Systems (London) Ltd.

    Was a lot of confusion is the last topic on this.
     
  5. zimbo
    Honorary Member

    zimbo Petabyte Poster

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    sorry if you dont mind me asking...but why do the jobs on Apprenta's website show salaries much higher than other job sites?
     
    Certifications: B.Sc, MCDST & MCSA
    WIP: M.Sc - Computer Forensics
  6. Disco25

    Disco25 Bit Poster

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    Do you think so? Don't seem that different to me, bear in mind some of them are for consultancy roles and are not permanent.
     
  7. Jakamoko
    Honorary Member

    Jakamoko On the move again ...

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    Having moderated the entire earlier post referred to here, I understood (and still do) that these are one and the same. Are you telling us this isn't the case here ?
     
    Certifications: MCP, A+, Network+
    WIP: Clarity
  8. Disco25

    Disco25 Bit Poster

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    They're not the same, some people were discussing the ICS who do distance learning for a wide range of courses including IT and can be found at www.icslearn.co.uk
    ICS (London) Ltd is a software company who mostly deal with banking institutions and can be found at www.icslondon.com.

    Apprenta is a sister company who recruit IT professionals and offer training. The cost may seem steep to some people but then what they are offering is virtual online classes with a consultant leading you through and work experience.
    So they have to pay the consultants time and the cost of the virtual labs and classes so i imagine it's not cheap.

    But my point was that a lot of people rubbished this when what they are offering is what actually happens in the US all the time but is a new concept here.
    Companies don't pay you for internships, it's about the skills you learn and the experience offered.

    It may still be a con but there is a lot that suggests otherwise too, the consultants you see are in recruitment, selling is what they do and probably will seem a bit dodgy as all sales people do. Ask to see a technician if there and then for a contact of current student. There are ways to check rather than just throwing away what might be a good opportunity because they seemed a bit dodgy at first.
     
  9. Jakamoko
    Honorary Member

    Jakamoko On the move again ...

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    Disco, I really think you should fully re-read the original thread before posting again here. There is no dubiety about which companies were being referenced in that thread, and that bears no semblance to the link you have posted above.
     
    Certifications: MCP, A+, Network+
    WIP: Clarity
  10. postal postie

    postal postie Nibble Poster

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    i believe in one of the other apprenta threads i did mention that i would think twice about joining apprenta as they are linked to ICS who do book keeping and pet grooming courses.
    i said that this meant they didn't specialise in any one sector.

    this was after i had my apprenta interview and came here.

    maybe thats where the confusion is. because i thought the two ICS's where the same.
     
  11. Disco25

    Disco25 Bit Poster

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    Thanks Postal postie, didn't think i had read it that wrong.

    They are different and i even contacted Harvey Nash who are down on Apprenta site as using them and they confirmed they do use them for recruitment and training.

    They seem ligit but all depends if you want to pay the contribution they ask in the end.
     
  12. KGB2003

    KGB2003 New Member

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    Hi There

    I thought I would reply to your thread as i have found it fascinating, I have just come across this Forum today and have been horrified to read what has been said about Apprenta. I am some one who has some basic IT skills but wants to join the IT Sector. i have been to see Apprenta and subject to payment of Fees I am considering starting my training with them. HOWEVER...
    After reading this website I am panicing slightly as I think have made a huge mistake so Please if there is anyone out there who is currently using Apprenta I would also love to hear from you as I think on Tuesday I am going to canel the whole thing! :ohmy
     
    Certifications: none as yet
    WIP: aiming to start Mcsd.net or similar
  13. simongrahamuk
    Honorary Member

    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

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    Hi there KGB 2003,

    Welcome to CF!

    When starting any trining course you have to go with your gut feeling. You will get out of the course what you put into it. Don't be put off by some comments, if you feel it is right for you then go for it. Atlernatively why not look into self study? Many of ous members hers have gone that route, and the results speak for themselves.

    8)
     
  14. postal postie

    postal postie Nibble Poster

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    one of the problems is that when things go well people don't talk about it.

    you will see more people moaning about things going wrong on the internet than things going right.
    you also don't know the little circumstances. like they didn't actually listen properly to what they were being told. or they feel they should have got a lot more. even if it is unreasonable to expect alot more.

    you have to weigh up the pros and cons.
     
  15. KGB2003

    KGB2003 New Member

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    Hi thanks for the replies. I do agree that we have a tendancy to only take about the negative, however there is certainly some questions that have arisen about authenticity of Appenta's claims.
    I am very grateful to have found this website at least i can now look into it a bit more. Someone mentioned self teach packages do you have any good tips on researching into that?
     
    Certifications: none as yet
    WIP: aiming to start Mcsd.net or similar
  16. simongrahamuk
    Honorary Member

    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

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    Do a search, either on here or somewhere like Amazon on your desired topic. You will find that there are an abundance of books out there that can teach you what you want to know at a fraction of the cost of training. If you find something that seems to cover what you want post about it here, and I'm sure that others will give their comments on it if they have used it, and how they found it.

    8)
     
  17. ploughclose

    ploughclose New Member

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    Hi, all - I've also posted this on the CIW certifications forum and just thought I'd chip in here as well if that's OK.

    Like quite a few other people on these forums, I've been attracted to the Apprenta internship offering. The figures seem to differ, but in my case, I was told that I would qualify for the Senior Consultant training (!), that the training would cost £22,000 (it does include 3 months with the World Bank as work experience) and that I would have to finance £8,000 of this. A 10% deposit of £800 was required (I have not paid this yet!) You end up with MSCA/D.NET and Biztalk certification and a guaranteed job.

    I've seen the contract on this last bit. It says "ICS undertakes to find the Student an offer of reasonable employment commensurate with the Student's skills and experience within 3 months of the Student's complete satisfaction of all courses and examinations."

    "In case of ICS's failure of its above obligation it will refund the fees to the student at a rate of no more than £250 per month for every month that a student remains unemployed. Total refunds shall not exceed the amount paid in course fees less a small administration cost and the cost of courseware".

    When I baulked at £8,000, they offered me a "scholarship" at £1,500. They also offer a "Work Right Now" scheme which allows you to do non-stressful work for their clients during the day so you can concentrate on your studies between 6 and 9 in the evening. This is of particular interest to me as I have just been made redundant.

    The problem is, it ticks a lot of boxes for me but I can't find any student who has gone through the internship and can say what it's like. Having read some of the comments on these forums (thanks, guys) I've asked the question of my consultant and left a message for him to get back to me with the names of some students who have been through it.

    The contract uses American spellings, so it's obviously based on an American idea. It seems to work there, so why not here?

    If anybody has some considered and constructive comment on any of the above, I'd really like to hear it.

    I'll keep you posted.

    Cheers,

    Chris.
     
    Certifications: ECDL
    WIP: Anything .NET!
  18. juice142

    juice142 Megabyte Poster

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    Erm.. because The USA has a completely different judicial structure and therefore laws to the UK?

    Just a thought... :blink

    J.
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), A+, Network+
    WIP: 70-270, MCSA
  19. shaqs101

    shaqs101 New Member

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    I am trying to find someone too, who has been through the internship, but cant?

    My worry is paying the 1500 and then if they cant get me a job apprenta some how getting out of paying the 1500 back or charging huge amounts for 'admin and courseware'
     
  20. Kermorvan

    Kermorvan New Member

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    I am one of 'Eight lucky Poeple' that has qualified for a place on their C# Classroom Based course. I was ment to be sitting in a classroom today but instead I am sitting here banging my head on the desk.
    I went to the interview at the beginning of april and was tottaly sucked in.I was told that he could get me on the course in Fareham(just down the road from me) commencing the 8th of May. I was lucky as he could get me on right now and every other bggr would have to wait 48hours for an answer.

    Anyways, i borrowed £1500 for the deposit and tried to contact them which proved difficult. I finally got through to the chap and said he had been on holiday and apologised (fair enough),and offered to take the deposit over the phone.I said no, as I wanted to make sure that everything was ok before I signed an agreement. He asked if I could I get up there that day.I couldnt so he booked me in for Friday 25th with another chap as he wasnt in the office the rest of the week.

    I went, made sure that I could start my course in Fareham on the 8th of may and addressed my concerns about the communication problem. I felt assured by this guy, he was very nice, accomadating and I handed over my deposit.

    I got a receipt in the post and a direct debit instruction which I signed and retured immediatly.

    Then, Nothing........

    I mailed both the people I saw at ICSLondon on the 2nd of May.One was bounced back from the original salesman but I got a reply from the second. "The girl that does the sheduling is off sick but I can book you in Croydon or you can do it online". I mailed back asking what happened to fareham, no reply. I called the next day,he was in a meeting. Mailed and called the next day and he's at a funeral.

    Bearing in mind that I was ment to start my course on the 8th of May,I insisted to speak to someone and was put onto the Customer Service manager :hahaha .She informed me that there was never a course booked in Fareham. I sent her all the mails I had sent to their company and she said she would look into it. I got a mail back about an hour later basically saying that they could change the location at a whim at that the reason I had received nothing regarding my course is that they had'nt received the direct debit.Bunk.

    I called her back and insisted to speak to someone higher, I spoke to a Director who did his utmost to make me take the course online. I refused, if I had wanted an online course I would have done a much cheaper one. Work experience and a classroom enviroment is what I was sold and that is what I paid for. He then mentioned that the original salesman that sold me this course was 'no longer with the company'. :what?

    Anyways, at an impass we agreed that either himself or the salesman would call me today at 11am, the day that I am ment to be in Fareham studying C#. He called,said he would be doing a partial course in Fareham and was very vague about the dates.
    I refused, this is not what I was sold. I want my cash back, I have not taken any software or books and I definatly have had no customer satisfaction from them. This, surprisingly enough, is not his department. He would have a chat with the Director I spoke to and call me back in 20 mins.

    Since then I have had no calls or mails from them.

    I have since found this forum, if only I had found it sooner.
     

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