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Agency Money..

Discussion in 'Employment & Jobs' started by Maruchino, Jun 16, 2008.

  1. Maruchino

    Maruchino Bit Poster

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    First things first, I have an 'interview' with an agency tomorrow about a position. I know for a fact that first line support jobs are between 15-18k for the area. However, when asked what salary I was looking for by the agency I was told that the role would be 14k starting, no more no less.

    Does this have any room for manoeuvre do you think? Should I get an interview with the actual company recruiting, should I raise the issue of salary with them or with the agency? I am happy to work for 14k, but it will mean travelling by car for 30 miles each day - so you can imagine the fuel bills will be quite a large % of my take home should I get it.

    Anyone had any luck negotiating with an agency over money?
     
  2. Mof

    Mof Megabyte Poster

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    Agencies tend to take a big chunk i would try for travel expence seeing your going 30 miles each way would hardley be worth going
     
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  3. disarm

    disarm Byte Poster

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    If it's a contract position there will definitely be room for negotiation, in fact it's always good to try and re-negotiate your rate once you've done the job for a while and proved yourself, etc. You'll also be able to claim back the mileage and other expenses if on a contracter basis.

    I would definitely negotiate a better rate than 14k.
     
  4. derkit

    derkit Gigabyte Poster

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    Either negoiate as disarm made the point or use it as a platform. Assuming this is your first line support role. take the hit, make the money and then 6/12 months down the line get a better paid job.

    Another angle:
    £14k is £955 in your pocket per month.
    Per £1k increase is an extra £57 in your pocket - how much are you realistically going to get out of the agency to make it worth the effort?? Little I would have thought.
     
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  5. Maruchino

    Maruchino Bit Poster

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    Good points well made.

    @disarm it's not a contract position, it's for permanent employment with the firm they are acting on behalf of.

    @derkit £57 is the travelling costs I would guess at, so I think it would be worthwhile. Interesting point about using it as a platform, i'll see what comes of it tomorrow and will perhaps negotiate a better wage once i'm settled (should I get the position!).
     
  6. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    You never know. It may still be worth a shot. It really depends on the circumstances.

    Agencies, for the most part, work on a markup. Whatever you get paid, they bump up, and charge the client. Those markups are usually agreed in contract with the client beforehand, so its entirely possible that the client have dictated the maximum they are willing to pay for someone, and the Agency has calculated the rate minus their markup.

    In the Agency's eyes, more money is better. If you are worth more, try to negotiate it. The agency certainly arent going to turn down an opportunity to earn some more cash. Even if the client refuses to pay more, the agency may (may) be willing to lower their markup to increase your pay, on the basis that less of something is better than all of nothing. That said, assuming that they are charging 15k for your services, they are only making 7% markup on you. Thats not really a lot. You might be able to push them to lower their rate to 5%, but anything below that and its just not worth their time - They would be making a loss against you.

    Of course, you run the risk of pushing too hard and losing the job altogether. Not to mention that theres no chance the agency will tell you its markup, so you're working blind.
     
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  7. disarm

    disarm Byte Poster

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    Is that 30 miles both ways, 15 miles each way? If so, that's not really a lot. I took a job a few years ago (retail/IT sales/support) for not a lot of money and 25 miles a day travelling - but I knew it would be good experience and a stepping stone to better things. I worked there for just over a year, then moved on to contracting for a bit, and next week I start my new job as an IT Support Engineer - more cash, better company, and very good prospects for training and professional development.

    If it's a foot in the door then it could well be worth your while further down the line.
     
  8. derkit

    derkit Gigabyte Poster

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    Fergal's right about agencies markup - my company has contractors @ £25ph. I know their agreed markup is 10%. I also know of one contractors who is on £21 ph.

    For the agency, place one person - £2.50 (markup) + £4 (contractors own fault for lower wage) = £6.50 per hour worked for the agency.... good money if you get it!
     
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  9. Maruchino

    Maruchino Bit Poster

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    @Fergal valid comments, of course I'm yet to find out how long my stint as an agency employee would be, so I guess that would affect how things worked out with the monies. One thing they did say, which almost made me laugh was "we have to see you first as the client is paying a lot of money to have all clients interviewed before they even get passed the CV" - I'm not sure they should have let that one slip?

    @disarm it's 30 miles total each day, you have to remember 'a few years ago' petrol was half the price it is today ;). Obviously I'm looking at jobs to get a foot on the ladder so I'm not expecting top wage, but it's not even competitive which is the shame. As you all know though, getting that first job is key (as I have been waiting to find out..).

    @derkit I was temping for an industrial agency and their markup was 100% for a 13 week period, I'm assuming that isn't how it's done for IT recruitment (particularly with permanent jobs?).
     
  10. derkit

    derkit Gigabyte Poster

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    When I was a 1st line temp, it was about 8% markup on what I was getting £8ph.

    When I joined the same company and went to 2nd line, it was a one-off payment of 15% of my salary - I'm assuming its the same way all the agencies work, but I'm not involved at that level so I can't say for sure.
     
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  11. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    one thing for everyone to remember
    no matter what an ad says, what an agency says, hell what an interview says, there is ALWAYS scope to adjust numbers for the RIGHT candidate, always!

    with that said, are you 100% sure you are the RIGHT candidate? if they have a bunch of others willing to accept the 14k no questions then you may talk yourself out of the running, however if you personally feel you are worth and deserve more then don't take the job if they wont give it, you will just get annoyed at the place if you cave in and accept 14

    and for the record, in the UK at least, employers set the rate, agencies get a flat fee based on the salary on top of that for filling the position, its very rare to see an agency set the salary for a permanent (or even contract) role unless you work VIA the agency (like how some of the clerical temp agencies operate)
     
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  12. disarm

    disarm Byte Poster

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    I was on just over 13k with 25 miles driving each day (not taking in to account using my car to do a bit of on-site work to local clients from time to time). I probably spent £20-25 a week on fuel.

    By all means look for a job closer to home, but I don't think 15 miles is too much to travel for a half decent position (I know people who travel that distance just for warehouse work)
     
  13. Ryan

    Ryan Byte Poster

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    i travel that every day for 14k, have been doing for nearly 2 years now although im looking for something much closer
     
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  14. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    My understanding is for permanent positions agencies charge a flat fee of 10-15% of first years salary.
    This can be many thousands of pounds for high level positions.
    They may even get a small payment for number of quality leads they provide also.

    Agencies generally make a fixed percentage of the daily/hourly rate for Contract positions, this means what ever the employer is prepared to pay, they get their cut, then you get whats left.

    I've heard of percentages of anything from 5% - 50%, its by no means always in the agents best interest to look after your interests.

    The generally concieved reasonable agency rate is around 15%. On contractor annual spending of £60k that would be £9k, so you can see that if they manage to place a few contractors a year every year the figures soon rack up...
     
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  15. UKDarkstar
    Honorary Member

    UKDarkstar Terabyte Poster

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    I recently applied for a job (full-time, permanent) via the local office of a franchised national agency (obviously I won't mention names or location). Inadvertantly they sent me copies of the emails between them and the client :

    As discussed, our rates are negotiable. XXXX's standard fee for a placement with a salary of between £25K and £30K is set at 25%, however, as discussed, being a franchise office give us more room for negotiation, and I am sure that we could come to an arrangement more around the 13% to 15% mark.

    Interesting reading eh ?

    Maybe we should all think of switching careers into recruitment !
     
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  16. grim

    grim Gigabyte Poster

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    agencies dont touch your salary all fees for employing your are paid by the employer to the agency.

    when they ask is there any more questions just ask them what the salary is and then ask if its negotiable. do get into this too much as this is usually sorted out after the interview if they think you are the right person for the job.

    Grim
     
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  17. dales

    dales Gigabyte Poster

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    suppose it all depends on the car, dont forget that in the last year petrol prices have shot up from high 90's to £1.20.
    When I worked at distance I used to travel about 48 miles a day with a 1.8 mondeo, cost me about £50-60 each week. so I cant imagine what it would cost me know as that was well over a year ago at the low 90's figure.
     
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  18. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    why? a good technical sales/pre sales guy will make more than most recruiters hands down
     
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