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Afterlife stuff

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by zxspectrum, Jun 20, 2009.

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  1. zxspectrum

    zxspectrum Gigabyte Poster Premium Member

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    Just wondering if any of you lot believe in life after death and spirits and all that type of stuff. Also do you have books on the subject or even visit site on it at all???

    Ed
     
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  2. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    I do believe in life after death. I know of a great book on the subject, if you're interested... :wink:
     
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  3. zxspectrum

    zxspectrum Gigabyte Poster Premium Member

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    Yeah id be most interested unless its along the lines of how great god is and that type of stuff. Whats the main arguement for the book, does it have accounts from people???? Im very interested as recently a friend of mine passed away in a tragic accident. Im not expecting to contact him and see how he is, i dont know why im looking down this avenue, i spose for some clarity.

    I got told the other week that if the person dies unexpectedly then they are trapped between worlds and thats why there are storys of ghosts and spirits. The second thing i got told is that a spirit takes about a year to sort of manifest so to speak, but maybe im missing something but thats seems to be a rather systematic approach????

    But yeah let us know what that book is called and ill have a look on amazon, cheers

    Ed
     
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  4. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    I think Mike was talking about the Bible fella...

    Personally I believe that there are plenty of things that science can't fully explain - and 'consciousness' or 'soul' or whatever you want to call it is one of them. I don't believe in any religion - but I'm still a reasonably spiritual person - I suppose you could call my philosophy on life 'Eastern' - its probably close to Hindu and Buddhist belief systems (karma playing a large part in what I believe in)
     
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  5. Bluerinse
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    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    For sure.


    I am with you on this Zeb, you might want to do some reading on Shinto, if you havent already.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinto
     
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  6. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    Yeah, I've read quite a bit on Shinto Pete. Also did some heavy reading on Theravada and Mahayana (specifically Nichiren Daishonin) buddhism in my early twenties. I've also dabbled in Confucianism and Taoism as well (I'm 'well travelled', spiritiually speaking - LOL)

    Still haven't found anything that really 'grabs' me though. At some point I'm planning on a six month trip round Japan, Korea, Southern China, Thailand and India - probably after I get divorced :biggrin - if I like the look of somewhere out there I might just never go back. Sick to death of the attitude of people in England and can't stand the weather. I'm starting to full 'unfulfilled' lately as well - though I guess that what comes of sitting in front of a screen fourteen hours a day lining someone else's pockets!
     
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  7. Bluerinse
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    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    My brother did more or less the same thing, earlier this year. he found India to be the place he felt most at home, and will most likely be spending a lot of the remainder of his life there.

    Coming from Croydon, it's not much different, except the Indian grub is cheaper and Goa is cleaner :biggrin
     
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  8. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    The others are right - it IS the Bible.

    Doesn't matter whether you think God is great or not... if what I believe is true, then everyone will have life after death. What you'll be doing in the afterlife is all dependent on you.

    It does, from the one person who knows a little something about the afterlife.

    There are stories that come up from time to time about people who have "gone to the other side and come back"... though there's no real proof of their veracity. Although I haven't read it, you could check out "90 Minutes in Heaven".

    Clarity? That's the whole question of life, dude. What are we here for? Where did we come from? What is our purpose? What happens when we die? Nobody TRULY knows for sure, though we might believe one thing or another. In truth, you're not likely to receive any clarity until the day you yourself die. And then, everything will be made clear... or you won't be aware of anything for the question to have made a difference.

    No idea, man. Nobody knows. But I seriously doubt there's been any sort of scientific study to determine the veracity of how ghosts come to exist, or even if they DO exist.

    Anyone who says they have the definitive answer might honestly believe it, but none of us truly know until it happens to us... and when that happens, we probably aren't going to be able to tell anyone about it from the other side.

    Best thing we can do is to prepare for our own afterlife, if we believe that there is one to prepare for.
     
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  9. Bluerinse
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    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    I should have said.. sorry for your loss ZX, my condolences to you, and all those affected by this loss.
     
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  10. m3lt

    m3lt Byte Poster

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    How can a fairly "educated" grown up adult, still believe there is "something" out there ?

    No, seriously it amazes me all the time the amount of people who believes in deities and superstition...

    Guess there is a huge difference between being wise and being educated. :rolleyes:
     
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  11. Bluerinse
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    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    Look around you at life here on earth, the human consciousness, our solar system and the universe beyond. Do you not give credence to the notion that there might be more to all this than meets the eye?
     
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  12. kevicho

    kevicho Gigabyte Poster

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    Hate to say this, but one of the annoying things about being an Atheist comments is that like this do annoy me and harm the whole standpoint of being an Atheist (A common false Christian belief is that all/most Athiests are angry with God or deny him/her/it for other negative reasons and negative comments like this kinda play into that viewpoint), id prefer to say that while I have read the Bible and can take away some of the morality tales I personally see no justification to base my lifes viewpoint on one/series of books (this goes for all religions such as paganism/buddish/etc) or any evidence that definitively proves that there is a God that created humanity from these books, while the fact that subjects such as God, afterlife etc cannot be explained, or disproved, due to the nature of the claims, however I will say that ultimately the burden of proof does lie with the religion and so far any deity such God/Allah/Yahweh/mithra/Odin etc have yet to be proved.

    However despite my viewpoint there is definately no reason to call people stupid for their beliefs as it is misguided rude and arrogant.
     
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  13. MLP

    MLP Kilobyte Poster

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    As has the theories of evolution and the big bang. The fact is that any belief, whether traditional religion, or scientific theory, requires a leap of faith.

    Agree with you whole heartedly that there is no reason to question someones intelligence based on their beliefs, whether you share them or not.
     
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  14. zxspectrum

    zxspectrum Gigabyte Poster Premium Member

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    Cheers for your comments Blue



    Ive just looked up that book on amazon and i can get it for a few quid which is worth it in my eyes.

    M3lt, how can a fairly 'educated' person believe that there isnt 'something' out there. As we did evolve from somehing surely. As for superstition, well thats just part of life, little things like a rabbits foot for good luck,not walking under ladders or cracks in the pavement. Can you seriously say that your not the tiniest bit superstitious???

    Being wise andbeing educated, i never claimed to be either lol and also what does either of them have to do with wanting to actually believe, im rather sceptical about the whole lot to be honest but theres always that nagging pain at the back that keeps me open minded which is better than saying that there is no afterlife at all.



    ZX
     
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  15. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    I'm not religious, but then there are some things that science alone cannot explain so I guess I'm in the middle somewhere when it comes to life and death.

    I don't believe in heaven or hell, but at the end of the day they are terms/concepts that maybe partly right or partly wrong.

    I once read one off Bill Bryson's books which started off along the lines of, if you break a human being and a coffee table down into individual atoms, you are left with two handfuls of the same thing. Yet, when put together, one pile of atoms creates something that is alive and conscious whereas the other doesn't.

    So what is that spark which defines 'life' or 'consciousness' and where does it go when we die?

    The sad thing is that by the time you find out for sure, it's too late.
    Or is it?
     
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  16. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    How can a fairly "educated" grown up adult, still believe they have the right to tell other people that there ISN'T "something" out there?

    I guarantee you that I am more "educated" than you, yet I don't believe I have the right to go round taking the piss out of other people for believing in something different to me.

    I think its probably you that needs to do the 'growing up' - and realise that its the fact that there ARE so many different beliefs, cultures and mindsets that make us such a fascinating species.
     
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  17. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Try reading Marcus Chown Afterglow of Creation and numerous other books and papers, its remarkable how science can make some pretty accurate conjectures. Ok so we don't know the exact instant but we can explain aspects of billions of years of our universes history.

    The books written by various cult factions struggle to acurately explain 2000 years of history. In many cases they went along with purges of other knowledge and persecution of groups and destruction of other cilvilizations. The contents of the modern bible were carefully selected by the church, for instance the Gospel of Mary is not included.

    No leap of faith is required, it is quite possible to say, here lies the edge of our current knowledge, we don't know what happened here, there are various possibilities.

    If I believed the world was flat despite the last 1000 years of proof you'd call me uneducated at least ? What if I belived in headhuntung or genital mutilation ?

    What if I believe in taking posion to get on a spacecarft ? Or blowing myself up to meet 80 virgins ? Or not giving lifesaving medical treatment to my children ?

    Beliefs can have a profound impact on peoples lives, they can be very positive or very dangerous. People therefore have a responsibility to educate themselvess about their beliefs from a wide variety of sources.
     
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  18. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    There are plenty of things that are 'proven' in science that, in fact, end up being disproven later on down the line. As an example, in the field I trained in, up until 25 years ago it was accepted as fact that dinosaurs were cold-blooded. The first people to postulate the theory that they were warm-blooded were ridiculed. This is now accepted as the dominant theory - despite it having been 'proven' otherwise before. When dealing with fields such as Astronomy, Astrophysics and the like, science by its very nature is conjectural - there can be no 'proofs' - only 'theories'.

    Nice attempt at piss-taking there - though 'mainstream' religions such as Islam, Christianity, Hindism et.al. are not 'cults' by the accepted modern definition on the word. My wife is a practising Catholic - simply aiming a sideswipe at her as a 'cultist' is a cheap shot - something I thought you would be above.

    Amen (sorry, couldn't resist!) - there are various possibilities. At least some of those possibilities involve religion, superstition and an afterlife.

    No - I wouldn't call you uneducated - I'd call you a moron. The world ISN'T flat - this HAS been proved. If you still believed it to be flat you'd be as stupid as the people who still believe that the theory of evolution is 'scientific mumb-jumbo'. Comparing disbelief of a known, 100% accepted-as-truth fact that has been proven as solid, with belief that science can't explain the basic mystery of human consciousness is absurd.
     
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  19. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Exactly, it represents the state of 'current knowledge' doesn't mean it can't change, thats one thing that makes it superior to a fixed interpretation of scripture. The majority of changes however are gradual refinements.

    There is a lot of bad archeology/paleontology, basically because of poor practice by enthusiastic 19th century amateurs, dinosaurs are one great example. Are birds not modern dinosaurs ? This represents how bad science and religion works, one person writes down their belief and tells everyone else its true, no experients, no predictions, no proof. Useful theories make predictions which later get proved, this is critical to the scientific method.

    Whats the difference ? There seem far more similarities than differences. Only real one I can see is that one is considered 'mainstream' and accepted.

    The romans probably called christianity a cult, given it was not at the time mainstream they would have been right ? Does a mainstream belief necessarily make it right ? Are large amounts of people ever wrong ? Was the world flat when 99.9% of people believed it ?

    Scientific proof aims for truths that are universally true, ideally not just related to some personal or cultural belief.

    Interpret it how you wish. I'd call an organisation that started The Spanish Inquisition, encourages africans not to use condoms, and presides over a large group of *****philes pretty weird no ?

    Yep, I'm prepared to admit that as one possibility, we could all be on the back of a giant turtle standing on four elephants, although all the evidence suggestests this is not true. Religions are great at constructing unprovable beliefs.


    I don't find it absurd, the point is peoples belief systems control how people act. You can't take a religion that comes packaged with so much baggage, of mythology, supersition, traditions, rituals, moral tales, politics, philosophy and just take the philosophy.

    People in those religions don't just take the philosophy, thats the point.

    If you talk about the religion you are talking about all of it, even the illogical parts that don't help with explaining the human condition.


    I'm sorry for your loss zxspecturm, I hope you find some solace someplace. If life after death does not exist, then that at least tells us to concentrate on the living and to make their lives better.
     
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  20. MLP

    MLP Kilobyte Poster

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    I'll look that book up, maybe it could influence my beliefs, who knows?


    Something I am starting to try and do. I wasn't claiming that science is wrong, and religious belief is right, but trying to articulate (badly) that I don't know. I have yet to be convinced either way. That said, some of the users I support could be used as possible examples of the missing link:D

    That is something that I would love to be true, The great Lord Pratchett.

    The point I was trying to make was in response to this:
    which seemed a little contemptuous, to be honest.

    To the opening poster, Very sorry for your loss.
     
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