1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Advice please on Computrain

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by IvybridgeIT, Aug 14, 2009.

  1. IvybridgeIT

    IvybridgeIT New Member

    3
    0
    0
    Hi newbie to this site and im after a bit of advice see what you guys and gals think!!:dry

    Been studying the Comptia A+ not far away from doing exam and have started to looking around for work,applied for a job and in it stated if you didnt have the MSCE qualifications the application goes through computrain.

    Right had brief chat with this chap from computrain on monday,and he wants to give me a phone interview,so I went ahead with this interview on the phone(yesterday) for hour and half and he said he had to put it to the directors who get to choose who goes forward.Got phone call today saying I have been put forward explains all about the course fees and guaranteed job at the end of the course and I would get written proof of this job offer if i dont get the job I would recieve 100% of the money I will have shelled out.

    So before paying any money(and thats a lot of money to me) out I thought it was best to check this out and this is when I found this great site.Alarm bells started ringing as soon as I was reading several of the posts on here about these guaranteed jobs and the real value of the training.So I emailed the chap at computrain with my concerns and this is his reply.

    Hi Chris,



    I understand what you are saying about what you have read. Every company has a forum that really has bad things to say about them even down to your big flag ship companies such as B&Q, Argos, Etc..



    Now in regards to what you are saying the way this employment program is set up is with the understanding that we will be placing you into your 1st IT role as a MCSE professional. This is where you will be able to put your training into action and gain that valuable hands on experience you need.



    The program is structured in a way to give you all the initial skills you need to set you up for your future in IT as a MCSE professional.



    So as the program stands you will be getting qualified to the MCSE level and also being placed into your 1st role with one of our clients.



    On the forums you will see that half the people that post actually are not from the UK so they have no idea on how CompuTrain UK operate so they are assuming and also when you see a member who has 20,000+ post it makes you wonder what they actually do for a living cause if they were working in IT they would have no time at all to post as much as that.



    I do know in actual fact that a few of the posts up there are from individuals we have unfortunately rejected in the past as we did not see the potential in taking them on.



    Also as discussed and what you will also see in your package is our peace of mind offering to you and every other success candidate is that if we fail to keep our word then you will be refunded the full amount, meaning you would have trained for free.



    Now I can assure you this is not going to be the case and the only reason to why we can offer this is because we are so confident in what we can achieve for candidates employment wise that we never have to refund candidates we accept.



    It is a shame that people would want to spoil it for everybody and even more of a shame that some of our success stories do not log into that forum and post some positive feedback for us. I believe there is a few who have but also understand that these guys are probably working too hard to be posting on a forum.



    I hope other peoples comments and opinions do not throw you and I still look very forward to working with you Chris



    Kind Regards


    Now is this for real or am I right in thinking there is no job at all and no chance of getting my fees back if there is no job? Must admit im totally confused who is right or wrong and some sound advice from you guys will help.I have no problem of carrying on the training by myself as im very motivated to get into IT.

    Thanks in advance
    Chris
     
    Certifications: none
    WIP: A+
  2. ericrollo

    ericrollo Megabyte Poster

    524
    11
    64
    Go for it, looks good
     
    Certifications: MOS Master, A+, MCP 271
    WIP: HND, Programming, Another Job
  3. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

    3,748
    330
    187
    Yeah right.

    Steer about as clear as its possible to steer. These companies are not remotely interested in training you for the future. The MCSE qualification is aimed at people who ALREADY have 18 months of experience managing a large, multi-site, complex network infrastructure. If you don't have that experience (and you don't), then firstly, you will never pass your exams legitimately; secondly, you will have a piece of paper that is worth precisely sod-all to you as no employer worth their salt will let you loose on their network without experience; and thirdly, you will be a large sum of money out of pocket.

    Make no mistake about this - the salesman is not interested in the slightest about your career. All he wants - ALL he wants - is his commission - and he will spin the same old bollocks to everyone he talks to. Just read the threads on this forum (and others - though we generally seem to be the ones getting it in the neck from training providers there ARE other forums out there with people saying the same thing). Around 95% of them are from people who have had dreadful experiences with training providers - largely inexperienced people who fell for the bull****. I'm actually one of the rare people who had a good experience with a training provider when studying for my MCSE - many moons ago now - but (and here's the key) I already had considerable experience in the industry before I took my MCSE. If I hadn't, I'd probably have been in the same boat as 90% of the people who started out on my course at the end of the year allocated to them to pass their exams - no job in IT, no prospects of getting one and four grand out of pocket.

    Finally - if that email is verbatim, then the salesman who sent it to you should be ashamed - not only of the absolute bollocks spouted in it (there are so many factual inaccuracies about the membership of this forum that it isn't even worth commenting on them) but also of the fact that my nine-year old nephew can construct better sentences than him.

    The best of luck to you - read through the myriad posts on here that expose training providers for what they really are - I know you'll make the right decision.
     
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em
  4. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

    3,748
    330
    187
    Actually, having read through that mail I'm appalled enough to rebut his 'points' one by one. Chris - if you're still awake at the end, good on yer!
    Laughable. So does that make it 'wrong' to complain when service is poor, goods are defective or people are being ripped-off? Of course it bloody doesn't! Not 'every' company has 'a forum' that has bad things to say about them. Only the ones that provide shabby service, treat their customers like **** and con people get that privilege.


    Equally as laughable. There is NO SUCH THING AS A 1ST IT ROLE MCSE PROFESSIONAL!!! Microsoft's own guidance on the MCSE qualification is that it should only be undertaken by an individual with 18 months' experience administering complicated, multi-site networks operating Microsoft technologies. That's a Systems Engineer role - which typically takes about 4-5 years' experience to attain. The first two years you work in IT will be on a helpdesk doing first-line support, and then possibly a second-line or desktop support role. Only after about 2 years will you usually move into server administration at a junior level - which still doesn't give you exposure to the technologies you need to be implementing and administering on a daily basis before you tackle the MCSE. A good analogy here would be a man who barely knows how to drive being given the keys to a formula one car and asked to take it for a spin in the countryside. It. Ain't. Gonna. Happen.



    See above. To set yourself up for a 'future in IT' you need to self-study for the A+ and Network+ exams. They will set you back about 300 quid for the pair, along with maybe £100 for some books.



    Now THIS is where the bull**** really gets interesting. What he's saying here (and what all the other sales patter, shiny literature and website bull**** will lead you to believe) is that all you have to do to get a '£35k a year job' (or £40k, or whatever else bull**** figure they're quoting nowadays) is to pass your exams and they will 'guarantee' you a job at the end of it with one of their 'partner' companies. I won't bother going into how utterly ridiculous that is - just read back through the forums for evidence that this is all utter toss (and search the Internet - a good place to start might be typing 'Computrain' + 'con' into Google)



    Apart from being ever so slightly xenophobic, this statement is factually entirely inaccurate - for this forum at least. Unless this moron is referring to some of the (ahem) 'less than pucker' forums out there (i.e. the ones that openly advocate or permit the discussion of using methods to cheat your way to certification) then he has his facts wrong. I don't own this site - and am not even a moderator - but, with the exception of maybe three people, every other regular poster on here is from the UK. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it Mr Computrain Liar! In addition, there is no-one on this site with 20,000 posts. The closest are two members with about 11,000. Almost every person on here with more than 500 posts works in IT. Some of us have been doing it for years. Regarding the remark that (SIC) '(I) wouldn't have the time to post here if I worked in IT' - well, I've worked in IT for longer than that *****'s had hot dinners. I'm a Senior Systems Engineer, have been a Database Admin, Security Admin and a Network Engineer for the last six years, and have worked in IT for ten years or so. ALmost everyone who posts here does so because they like to share knowledge - be that of the certification process, the technologies they work with, the industry as a whole or - yes indeed - the lunacy of people being conned into paying 6 grand for bits of paper that ain't worth a damn.



    The best bit of the email by far. Anyone who has taken one of these tests will know what I mean. For ****s & giggles, less than two years ago, I took Computrain's 'aptitude test' online and, on this very forum, I publically stated that - despite deliberately answering more than 90% of the questions wrong, I was told at the end that i was an 'ideal candidate' for the MCSE package. Some of those questions were so basic that my nephew would have got 80% on the 'test'. He's nine. There is one reason Computrain would turn an individual down - lack of a bank account. Are you still with me Chris? Not lost the will to live yet? Goody gumdrops. NOT. ONE. SINGLE. PERSON has EVER posted here saying that they had failed Computrain's entry requirements - because for them to say they turn people away when they have access to money or a government-backed loan to pay for training is utter crap.



    Words fail me here. I really do not know how they get away with this. Again, read back through the forums for information on just how simple it is to get them to honour this 'guarantee'. Anyone with mental acuity above a Chimp should be able to figure out that this is bollocks.



    You see what he did there? He's basically admitting that they never refund anyone - presumably because all the people they train are either placed in jobs immediately, or so stupid that they think paying 6 grand for worthless pieces of paper and not getting a job at the end of it is 'value for money'. You getting the idea here yet Chris? Sounding like a big con? Good stuff.



    'People who want to spoil it for everybody'? Yeah - because there are literally hundreds of people who have nothing better to do all day than lie about training providers on the Internet - when in reality they're all just jolly good sorts trying to help people into the big bad world of IT. We have had people on here in the past posting in favour of training providers. They're called 'shills' - and are the same sort of people who log onto MySpace or Bebo and tell all their friends how great the latest Zac Efron movie is...



    And I hope that other peoples' comments and opinions DO 'throw you'. That's why you came onto the Internet and researched this in the first place.

    I hope you read this and my other post Chris. You're clearly an intelligent man - read the closed threads on Fraser McKenzie (another training provider) for shining examples of those poor souls who weren't as diligent in their research as you. They got stung by a training provider who inveigled enormous sums of money out of them.

    Chris - if I've convinced you that training to what should be the industry's blue riband qualification with no experience and paying 6 grand into the bargain is a fool's errand - then I can go to bed a happy man!
     
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em
  5. Mr.Cheeks

    Mr.Cheeks 1st ever Gold Member! Gold Member

    5,369
    85
    190
    Sleep tight, dont let the training providers bite!
    Wise words Zeb!
    Take note Chris!
     
  6. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

    8,871
    167
    256
    Damn Zeb, the last two posts of yours, are the best bits of advice i have read here to date.

    *Pats your back*

    (repped)
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  7. soundian

    soundian Gigabyte Poster

    1,460
    71
    107
    Have some rep from me as well.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+,MCDST,MCTS(680), MCP(270, 271, 272), ITILv3F, CCENT
    WIP: Knuckling down at my new job
  8. Sparky
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

    10,191
    299
    319
    Great post Zeb :thumbleft
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Exchange 2007\2010
  9. wizard

    wizard Petabyte Poster

    5,763
    35
    174
    Eric did you read chris' post in its entirety? Or did you just post without thinking?
     
    Certifications: SIA DS Licence
    WIP: A+ 2009
  10. ericrollo

    ericrollo Megabyte Poster

    524
    11
    64
    I was either being too positive or just sarcastic i cant remember.
     
    Certifications: MOS Master, A+, MCP 271
    WIP: HND, Programming, Another Job
  11. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

    5,239
    211
    236
    Important difference...

    8)
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  12. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

    14,283
    254
    329
    Don't do it mate, this is a complete waste of your money and time because having the MCSE and no experience will go against you when applying for jobs and no one can gaurantee you a job no matter how much you pay them.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  13. TTab

    TTab Bit Poster

    10
    0
    12
    I must disagree with some of the points, regarding Computrain's guaranteed job placement scheme. All their highly skilled graduates, will definitely have a role in an IT setting, well the job centre uses computer terminals, doesn't it:twisted:
     
    Certifications: MCP 70-270 MCTS 70-680
    WIP: MCSA / CCENT
  14. Markyboyt

    Markyboyt Kilobyte Poster

    407
    12
    39
    The problems are in the minor details dude, if they dont get you a job you get your money back - simple?

    Nope, if they get you a crap job where you make no progression and earn peanuts you don't get your money back and you will just have to leave and find another more appropriate job, problem being your qualification is based on experience you havent yet gained so your over qualified and under experienced, over qualified for entry level jobs and under experienced for MCSE level jobs and a few thousand pound lighter for it.
     
    WIP: A+
  15. TTab

    TTab Bit Poster

    10
    0
    12
    It is even worse than that. If they do find them an entry-level job on a tiny salary, it is more than likely that their co-workers, who studied and actually understood a more relevant quali, such as A+, would have far greater skills for the job that they now do, compared to someone who most probably, was 'taught' only to pass exams, using various degrees of possibly dubious methods.
     
    Certifications: MCP 70-270 MCTS 70-680
    WIP: MCSA / CCENT
  16. Markyboyt

    Markyboyt Kilobyte Poster

    407
    12
    39
    Wise words Zeb, I think Chris will probably be glad he discovered this forum, I know I was after researching computeach.

    One thing that definitely can't be said about this forum is the lack of experience, usually forums are full of DIY'ers, like I use a Seat (cars not chairs lol) forum and there are very few people on there in the motor trade, here the majority of regular users are experienced IT folk covering a diverse range of roles.

    Maybe Chris should put some of the points in Zeb's post to the salesman and see what his defence is.
     
    WIP: A+
  17. wizard

    wizard Petabyte Poster

    5,763
    35
    174
    Chris,

    You could point the salesman to this thread and encourage him to sign up and defend his tactics. It would be interesting to see how he would react once he realises it's no longer a one on one exchange.

    However I do not condone the posting of private email correspondence without the prior permission of all parties.
     
    Certifications: SIA DS Licence
    WIP: A+ 2009
  18. IvybridgeIT

    IvybridgeIT New Member

    3
    0
    0
    Can I just say a big thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply to my post. Needless to say, I will be taking up the advice, and not bothering with them. It does make me cross that they are preying on those with the motivation to learn, but are lacking in the experience dept. It all seems so plausable. It's no wonder there are many disgruntled students out there. :x

    I will keep up with my studies, and thanks to you guys 'n' gals for the good advice, I shall stick around! :biggrin

    Wizard, I didn't realise it was a nono for posting up emails, I shall be more careful in future. At least I kept the senior 'consultants' name out of it. However, if this thread helps just one other from falling into the same trap, then, i'm sorry, but it was worth it!
     
    Certifications: none
    WIP: A+
  19. chincha

    chincha Bit Poster

    10
    0
    2
    Hi iam Adi,
    i am from india and i came to pursue my masters here in UK as i want to grow my career in IT i was looking opportunities and one day i got a call from this company and been told that i would be interviewing on the next day after completetion of it i have to undergo MCSE training and then i will get a job ..
    i was really tempted and excited and i payed 350£ for the regestration fee..
    later i found this forum and iam regreting is there any chance that i can come out ..
    is it mandatory that i have to go with the course by paying all the money am really confused please help me..
    iam not in a position to loose more money..
    please suggest me
    cheers
     
  20. Helz

    Helz New Member

    4
    0
    1
    I would just like to say this happened to me with Computrain I don't even remember applying! but hey!
    Probably dialled some number at random!
    But anyway back to the point when they explained all the deals to me i.e (35K a year maybe even 40K) I thought Yay! but I phoned up my dad who works with computers anyway and he said he NEARLLY made a mistake by going with this company cos he thought he was getting the relevant training that was needed for him to further himself in his job. (Apparently Not!)
    So in theory nearlly lost 3K if not more.
    Even more to the point how could they guarantee a 17 year old (this all happened in 2007) a 35K a year job!!!
    I hope this has been of some help to you but my advice is dont do it!!!!!!!!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2009

Share This Page

Loading...