advice needed?! I don't want to be ripped off

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by danielbh, Jan 12, 2006.

  1. sebastian65654

    sebastian65654 Bit Poster

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    Believe me I know what I am talking about. I am not against A+, it’s an excellent certification if someone want to pursue a caress in pc repair and support, but pc support is not for everybody, some people enjoy it and some don’t.
    If a person wants a career change to IT, you don’t advice them right away to do A+. You have to see what their background and skills are and try to help them to get into a field where they can use their skill and other qualifications that they may have.
     
  2. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Um, unfortunately you haven't really put anything in your public profile to give that any weight.
    What is your source of information?
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  3. MarkN

    MarkN Nibble Poster

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    Phoenix is spot on about the need for us as IT professionals to align ourselves with the business. It is critical that we understand our respective business because once we do, we can work out how to leverage the technology available to the benefit of the business. Thats where certifications are valuable, as part of the process you are exposed to the full range of the product ie AD, Exchange, SQL or MOM etc etc. You can then utilise that knowledge when adapting your infrastructure as required by the business. As mentioned, PRINCE2 is useful but so are things such as ITIL which allow us to develop and adopt process and procedures to make us more efficient and so on. Technical prowess, interpersonal skills and commercial awareness should be our targets.
     
    Certifications: MCSE NT4\W2K,CNE,CCEA,ASE
    WIP: CCNA
  4. Jakamoko
    Honorary Member

    Jakamoko On the move again ...

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    Interesting post, MarkN - where do you see the "basic grade" certs fitting in to this (ie, A+, N+ ) ?
     
    Certifications: MCP, A+, Network+
    WIP: Clarity
  5. sebastian65654

    sebastian65654 Bit Poster

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  6. MarkN

    MarkN Nibble Poster

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    Jakamoko

    Hi, I feel that A+/N+ have their place in the overall scheme of things, before we can do the advanced stuff we need, and I think most people are agreed, to have a grounding in the basics. A+/N+ are not the only way to go about obtaining this foundation knowledge, I learnt my basics via a 4 year engineering apprenticeship, but for some they will be relevant and offer the introduction that is required.. Pheonix mentioned earlier that there was a requirement to understand the basics when deciding how to spec up the right HP server for a particular role. I quite agree and the HP AIS (in proliant servers)certification goes through the basics much like the A+ although heavily biased to the server side element. Sebastian views MCP\CCNA as entry level and to some extent I agree, the first semester of the Network academy goes through the basics of a computer and builds from there. I think the bottom line is, it doesn't matter whether you go through an apprenticeship, uni, college, A+/N+, MCP,CCNA or AIS as long as you obtain a firm knowledge and appreciation of the basics before you move onto the heavy stuff.
     
    Certifications: MCSE NT4\W2K,CNE,CCEA,ASE
    WIP: CCNA
  7. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    Mark, for clarification the Network Acadamy is not strictly pure CCNA material, it encompases a lot of entry level IT stuff leading eventually to a CCNA, it however includes aspects of A+ in it as well from what I understand (my mate works at one but i dont, so dont take it as gospel)

    And whilst the CCNA may be Ciscos entry level cert, despite sebastians stance it should not be considered an entry level cert, i've watched many people fail it more than once with the 'its entry level, i can do it' attitude
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCITP, VCP
    WIP: > 0
  8. Clyde

    Clyde Megabyte Poster

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    CCNA entry level ? for who ?
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA, MCSE
    WIP: MCITP
  9. danielbh

    danielbh Bit Poster

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    19 i wish I was! I'm 27 now which is why I'm cosidering training.
     
  10. danielbh

    danielbh Bit Poster

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    Thanks for all the excellent guidance. I feel now that I have more of an insight into things. I've enrolled on a learndirect course which you can study A+ all for free! I will hopefully keep in touch with you all. By that way for the purposes of making a hands on setup at home what kind of computer/s? is 486 too old? or pentium 1?
     
  11. michael78

    michael78 Terabyte Poster

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    Yeah, thats a bit too old mate, you need to go for at least a PIII for XP. If you have a couple of hundred spare you can pickup a good test PC from places like ebuyer they have an esys one for about £150 minus a monitor.
     
    Certifications: A+ | Network+ | Security+ | MCP | MCDST | MCTS: Hyper-V | MCTS: AD | MCTS: Exchange 2007 | MCTS: Windows 7 | MCSA: 2003 | ITIL Foundation v3 | CCA: Xenapp 5.0 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Administrator on Windows 7 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Support Technician on Windows 7
    WIP: Online SAN Overview, VCP in December 2011
  12. sebastian65654

    sebastian65654 Bit Poster

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    I have to disagree!! you do not use cpu knowledge and buses almost ever facet of IT, surely having any knowledge is good in IT, no matter if its hardware, software, low level or advance, and knowledge is power. Having good cpu and buses knowledge is very much require and will be handy if you going to be a pc reapir\suppoer or other hardware related jobs, not for every single IT job.

    Lets just have looked a few sectors of IT and see how cpu and buses knowledge are require or will be handy, Bus/Systems Analysis , security (checkpoint, PIX, RSA), CRM, Network Infrastructure (Cisco, Juniper, Nortel, Lucent, 3COM), Multimedia and many others. You DO NOT require extensive cpu and buses knowledge or even minimum knowledge to be in any of these sectors, and if they will require knowledge of cpu and buses which will be very unlikely, it will be basic and low level Knowledge.

    Every single programmer and Application developer know their basic hardware, they learn that in early days of their programming career, some have better and more knowledge then others, but none of them will go and spend months and years to learn about cpu and buses so they can write better codes. The only programs and developers that will perhaps require extensive knowledge of pc hardware will be those people that are going to work for pc hardware manufactures like ASUS, Dlink, ABIT, or other manufactures.


    ffreeloader may enjoy or have passion about hardware, which is perfectly fine he is good at it and will get reward for it and many people do, if you looked this forum www.cpu-world.com/forum/ and many others, you will see that there are people that have great passion for hardware and they have extensive and excellent knowledge about hardware, even some of them don’t work in IT industry, but to go around and tell people that having cpu and buses knowledge are very much require or will be very helpful for every single IT job are very much WRONG!!! To say things like that is the assumption of someone very inexperienced, or very narrow minded, I hope its only experience you don’t have on your side :dry
     
  13. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

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    I think you have missed the point slightly Sebastian. I agree that much of the knowledge gained by studying the A+ is not 'essential' to some of the roles you have suggested, but it is very much beneficial to have an overall understanding of what's going on under the hood, wether or not you are in a role that requires you actually get your hands inside the PC.

    Phoenix pointed out one example were he found A+ knowledge useful. The A+ covers a very wide area of topics, not just CPU's, BUS's etc...

    MarkN made a good point that the A+ isn't the only place you can get a good foundation in IT, but it is one of the best all round qualifications for this that I have come across in my experience.

    Although it doesn't cover area's such as programming I do genuinely believe it would be useful to a programmer to study for an A+ (even if they don't take the exam etc..) I come from a programming background (DOS and early Windows) and I feel it would have helped me back then.

    If you disagree with all that, then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. :)
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCP, MCDST, MCSA 2K3, MCTS, MOS, MTA, MCT, MCITP:EDST7, MCSA W7, Citrix CCA, ITIL Foundation
    WIP: Nada
  14. simongrahamuk
    Honorary Member

    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

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    Guy's,

    Whilst this thread is really making good reading I can't help but feel that we have gone way off topic here.

    The thread was started by Danielbh asking for advice about weather to go with a specific training provider or not, he has since stated that he will be looking to use Learn Direct to help him in his studies.

    I'm sure now that the OP (Openning Poster) believes that he has had his questions answered and it is time to move on.

    If you want to continue the discussion about the relevance of the A+ in the scheme of things then may I suggest a new thread in the A+ forum.

    :offtopic
     
  15. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    LOL. Well, you're certainly persistant Sebastion.

    I'd like to point out to you that I know of nobody in the IT field that started off their IT career working in systems analysis, security, network infrastructure, multimedia, etc.... Everyone I know started much closer to the bottom and worked their way up the ladder to the higher level jobs.

    It's basically impossible in today's IT job market to start at the high level jobs. There is so much competition for those jobs that newbies are completely shuffled off to the side. They aren't given serious consideration for those positions at all in any company that I know of. If they were I'd be working in one of those companies....

    Also, probably 95% of the jobs that are advertised any more are multi-faceted positions. The person doing the job is required to work with hardware, do some networking, and probably the employer will want some server admin skills, customer service skills, and scripting/programming skills on top of that. So, to say the A+ is irrelevant to people entering the field because there are positions out there that may not use it is just plain old wrong. Very few jobs today are single mission jobs. Even fewer of them are given to people just entering the IT field.

    So, is the A+ a good starting point for anyone entering the field? You bet it is....
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
    WIP: LPIC 1
  16. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    Now Sebastian
    whilst I enjoy a bit of healthy debate
    I must ask you attempt to do two things
    one, string your words together so that they make some sort of sense
    second, you say, and I quote
    I would ask that you scroll back over my posts, theres only two of them so it shouldnt be too hard, and tell me where on earth I ever said that?

    The member expressed an interest in a course that included A+, MCP, CCNA etc, my assumption based on that information is that the user has done enough homework to find us, he must know the general field that those courses apply to, my assumption could ofcourse be wrong, but anyone looking to shell out 5K who hasnt done any research is a bit of a mug really
    I mean, I doubt he wanted to be a .NET programmer with a CCNA and an A+ completed first, despite their use, to this end I ask that you stop your un substantiated flamewar with our members, atleast until you actually have completed the above two tasks
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCITP, VCP
    WIP: > 0
  17. twobellies

    twobellies Bit Poster

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    Hello Daniel,
    i am new to this forum and IT for that matter! I am doing A+ and N+ with skillstrain.co.uk , who are charging £2000 which includes all materials, training and exams. They gaurantee exam pass or resit for free.

    Why don't you check them out?

    regards

    Tom
     
    Certifications: none yet!
    WIP: A+ N+
  18. Handyman

    Handyman Bit Poster

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    Hi all,

    Just to add to this thread that I work with (not for) Just IT as we provide ITIL for them. From what I understand they do offer the full mentoring package and not just train you in IT but offer you CV redesign and interview training. And so long as you CV is at the right level they will be able to get you a placement. They will not offer the course to someone that has no hope of getting a job as it will lose them money and as they handle recruitment for several large employers they could lose that contrcat by sending them numpties.
     
    Certifications: ITIL Foundation, BTEC Nat Computing
    WIP: CCNA

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