advice needed?! I don't want to be ripped off

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by danielbh, Jan 12, 2006.

  1. Muir

    Muir Bit Poster

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    ffreeloader I just want to ask one question, was this a pun or a spelling mistake?

     
    Certifications: Degree, HND, MCP (305, 306, 229)
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  2. sebastian65654

    sebastian65654 Bit Poster

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  3. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    Anyone with the necessary funds to pay Microsoft can become a certified Microsoft partner. This is the most over-hyped partnership there is. It doesn't really mean anything. I studied with a certified Microsoft parter and their instructors had no real world experience. They pushed braindumps as the way to pass exams.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
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  4. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

    Please play nicely.

    New guys, please remeber that some of the members of this forum are experienced professionals. You might not like what they have to say, but they've earned the right to say it. You want to get into the IT industry?
    They are the IT industry. You will be sitting opposite someone like this, and if you don't like their opinions now you won't have the option then.

    Old guys, um, oh, well just be gentle...
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  5. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    LOL. Be assured it was a typo.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
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  6. Muir

    Muir Bit Poster

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    Ok ffreeloader, it gave me a chuckle so it didn’t really matter, I just wanted to check.

    Sometimes you’ve got to be cruel to be kind, I really don’t want to see anyone else waste there money on these ‘training providers’.
     
    Certifications: Degree, HND, MCP (305, 306, 229)
    WIP: MCDBA
  7. simongrahamuk
    Honorary Member

    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

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    What Jonny said! 8)
     
  8. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    Well, I don't see that being honest with people is being cruel. As far as I'm concerned allowing someone to go on with a distorted sense of reality about something is being cruel. It's cruelty to stand by and watch someone walk off the edge of a cliff if all you have to do to stop them is speak up.

    I'm with you on the not wanting to see anymore people get ripped off by these kinds of "training providers" either. I despise them with a passion because they do nothing but spread heartache and despair in the end.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
    WIP: LPIC 1
  9. hbroomhall

    hbroomhall Petabyte Poster Gold Member

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    <cough> Yes. But that was a) before I started to look at certs, and b) after *many* years in the business and c) I'm really a developer. I doubt you could get that sort of money as just a techie - no matter how good you are.

    Harry.
     
    Certifications: ECDL A+ Network+ i-Net+
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  10. Clyde

    Clyde Megabyte Poster

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    I would recommend the A+ and Network+ first because
    A - they count towards MCSA if you complete the necessary simple form on CompTIAs website
    B - it gives you a foundation in hardware, networking and operating systems other than XP or 2000 that you don't get if you do just MCSA as Sebastian recommends (and before he says otherwise, if you're going to spend time learning something , you may as well get certified in it at the same time)
    C - they last a lifetime - no expiry date
    D - despite his assertions, employers do value them

    Starting with that lot under your belt, go for the MCSA - you'll need 3 microsoft exams.

    Now, how to do it - the prevailing winds here say do it alone, which is fair enough, but as a trainer I'd appeal for you to keep me in employment and go for classes if you think you'd learn better that way, but... I agree that these 'career packages' tend not to work for most folks.

    Some get there, the majority don't...


    perhaps look at night classes or training providers that don't offer gimmicks, just honest training at your pace where you pay as you go...

    oh.. and good luck to you if you get paid 50 - 100k ...
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA, MCSE
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  11. Sparky
    Highly Decorated Member Award 500 Likes Award

    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    .......if only Id known! I just got my A+ cert delivered today as well, shall I just burn it?

    Do you have the A+ cert by any chance? Seems to me that people who don’t have this cert are the ones who generally bad mouth it.

    Anyways back to the original question from danielbh, even if you passed all the offered certs the timescale is unrealistic to fully understand the material, aim for the A+ and see even if you enjoy studying IT before you commit to any other certs.

    Also in regard to the potential wage, I don’t fall into the £50-100k category either as I earn £110k (jk)......... ......and people say the A+ is waste of time! :wink:
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) MS-900 AZ-900 Security+ Network+ A+
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  12. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    Well I found doing an MCSE without the solid foundation of the A+ and N+ to be a real struggle.

    I remember clearly in one class where the instructor was covering IP subnetting, one minute we were discussing the different classes and the next we were moving on to VLSM. I was totally lost, whereas the guys that had done the N+ were able to keep up. This meant that I had to put in a lot more effort just to be able to understand what was being said.

    I would even consider doing the A+ and N+ now, even though I am an MCSE because I am sure there are holes in my basic knowledge.
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  13. Clyde

    Clyde Megabyte Poster

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    re the network+

    where I work I'll be teaching this to career changers next week and I'd day it's essential for them as the current MCSA/E syllabus simply assumes your knowledge of the material. I'm looking forward to it as I quite enjoy the challenge of meeting and exceeding the network+ syllabus during the week. I take it all the way up to university level on ethernet and its great fun 'cos its really simple once you go beyond the jargon!

    they'll get value for money on my course!
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA, MCSE
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  14. Balian

    Balian Bit Poster

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    Hey guys,

    Is it ok to add my tuppence? As someone who has recently started doing an MCP course with Advent, and just had my first days training/hands-on workshop today, I have to say, that IMHO there's not a cat's chance in hell you can cover all that in 12 weeks. Not taking anything away from you mate, I'm sure you'll have the savvy and determination to progress, but there is only so much that you can do at once.

    I contacted several of these distance learning providers, as, although I have an HND in IT, it's 7 or 8 years out of date, (gives me the basics, but needed something up to date) so I wasn't confident with just getting the books and reading through them. So. I understand the reasons for you choosing this route. However, if you'll allow me to give you a teenybit of advice, shop around, and break down your intended courses into more manageable(sp?) chunks? I'm going for an MCP in Windows 2003 server, and XP Professional for now, as part of the full MCSE, that way, to me, it's not quite as daunting, and I (hopefully) will attain MCP status on completion of the exams, which will in turn (again, hopefully) lead to a job, and more experience... Then? Bring on the rest!!! NO PITY! NO REMORSE! NO FEAR!! Sorry..... Getting militant now. :oops:

    P.S Can I also add, that the training done today was top notch, we covered a decent amount without getting bogged down, did a lot of hands on stuff, and it was importantly (surprisingly) hugely ENJOYABLE!!! I'd imagine any training provider that includes this facility would be equally good.
     
    Certifications: HND IT, A+
    WIP: MCP 2003 Server, XP Professional
  15. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    For sure, please book me a place Clyde 8)
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  16. Clyde

    Clyde Megabyte Poster

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    sorry, it's full.. but ask me a question, any question *G* ...
     
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  17. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    Ok I havnt even got past page 2 yet but I have to respond to this, this is WRONG, just plain WRONG

    I used to think A+ was pretty irellivent too, mainly because I got it after my MCSE and it really didnt help me get any jobs, but I was wrong

    I dont touch PC repair with a barge pole any more unless I have to, but that knowledge of buses and cpu architecture comes in handy in almost ever facet of IT, programmers can use that knowledge to write better, more efficient code, I can recommend a solution over another because I know that the bus bandwidth of system A will lower the latancy of a transaction compared to system B in fact just this week I was discussing the pros and cons of the Xeon / Opteron debate with a client who was unsure whether to go for a DL580 or a DL585 server farm, we worked out the kind of program he would be running, and I pointed out that the opteron having onboard memory controllers significantly increased the performance of memory I/O and thus a program dependant on that kind of throughput would benefit despite the Opterons lower clock speed, Xeons whilst still faster clock for clock, have to cross the limited bandwidth of the FSB, and compete for cycles on it with additional processors!

    To say things like that only apply in PC repair is the assumption of someone very inexperienced, or very narrow minded, I hope its only experiance you dont have on your side

    now to continue reading...
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCITP, VCP
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  18. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    Hey now, im 'just a techie'! :)

    Actually, there is very little demand for 'just' techies anymore, if your doing anything more than break fixes and first line support on < £20kpa then your generally more than a techie, my role these days encompases project management, pre sales, team management, customer relationships, etc so maybe im not 'just a techie' anymore

    the point is neither should most techies be, if you strive to progress in this industry, hear this, there is more and more of a push to get IT folks to be more aligned with business, something that up until recently wasnt all that common, this is ofcourse a good thing, so dont fob off business practice, budget management, efficient project planning etc, pay attention to it, get involved in it where you can and learn from it
    your more likely to succeed in this cut throat industry if you do folks!
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCITP, VCP
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  19. hbroomhall

    hbroomhall Petabyte Poster Gold Member

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    :biggrin Exactly!

    And I agree completely with what you wrote.

    An interesting point here is how many of the course-providers acknowledge that there is benefit is being more than 'just a techie'?

    Harry.
     
    Certifications: ECDL A+ Network+ i-Net+
    WIP: Server+
  20. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    well if they could sell you a £1500 prince2 course on top i'm sure they would try! :P
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCITP, VCP
    WIP: > 0

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