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ADVENT - A+, MCDST, MCTS, MCITP

Discussion in 'New Members Introduction' started by Nightburner, Mar 12, 2008.

  1. Nightburner

    Nightburner New Member

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    Hi PPL

    I'm new to the forum stuff but i need some serious advice quick sharp - i'm looking at doing the above courses to become a database administrator but lokig through all the forums i'm getting a mixed reply - can someone seriously say yes to advet training or No stay away - need as much information a possible
     
  2. harpistic

    harpistic Byte Poster

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    If you want to be a database administrator, you need to get a copy of SQL Server and a pile of books.

    I tend to delete the job ads I receive, but all of the DBA job adverts I receive specify experience and specific abilities, not certifications.

    I'm currently looking into brushing up, as I've been doing other stuff for the last year or so, but I'll be doing that through normal books and not certs.
     
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    WIP: cure for insomnia
  3. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    Hi Welcome

    Firstly the A+ and MCDST wont help you get into database administration all they would help you get a tech job.

    you need to get some books and a copy of SQL and Oracle so you can practice and then attempt the MCDBA offered by microsoft.

    But I would recommend trying to get a trainee role as a DBA first before attempting it.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  4. Notes_Bloke

    Notes_Bloke Terabyte Poster

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    Hi and welcome to CF:D

    NB
     
    Certifications: 70-210, 70-215, A+,N+, Security+
    WIP: MCSA
  5. Nightburner

    Nightburner New Member

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    Harpistic

    where so i get a hold of a sql server and pile of books. do you not recommend advent? i know there i no quick fix and they make it sound good - thing is i've learnt that things sound good dn't tend to be good at all - looking for guience on how ican get a good it job
     
  6. Nightburner

    Nightburner New Member

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    the training course avises that i do A+ and MCDST first then move into MCTS SQL server 2005 then MCITP - is this not the way to do it?
     
  7. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    I would do it that way but you don't need to go with a training provider you could do all those certs by getting the books and doing them at home.

    I am not sure but you may be able to get trial versions of SQL with some sql books, you can get trial operating systems with microsoft books so I can't see why you wont be able to for sql.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  8. harpistic

    harpistic Byte Poster

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    You can download a trial version of SQL Server from Microsoft, and you can get the books from Amazon. Find your way around SQL Server first then look into T-SQL and DTS, as those are key requirements for pretty much any job.

    I'm a database programmer/DBA, although I'm doing more web work these days, and I would not go to a training centre to learn these skills; also I would not take the certifications to get ahead in the field, as they are not commonly asked for. (Yeah, they appear in some job ads, but those are the minority; it's the skillset which is of importance in every job ad you look at).

    The distinction is that certifications are fundamental to networking/systems/support roles; in programming, they are pretty much superfluous. If you are considering studying, then avoid the big training centres, and look at your local colleges - you will probably get the same quality of education at realistic prices.

    SQL Server would be the best place to start - alternatives would be MySQL or PostgreSQL - as it's more commonplace, and easier to find an entry-level role. Oracle is a tricky one, as although it's a very desirable skill, it's nigh on impossible to get a job without prior commercial experience.

    What work are you currently doing - do you have prior database experience, and is there any way you can squeeze SQL Server into your work? If you can get any kind of experience onto your CV, then you will have a starting point.
     
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  9. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Do you have IT experience? Getting a bunch of certifications would not make you qualified to jump into a database administrator role. Of course... Advent's not gonna tell you that.

    I would recommend that you immediately start looking for an entry-level job, and begin pursuing entry-level certifications, such as the A+, Network+, and MCDST.

    Once you've got some real-world experience, and have started administering database servers (which doesn't typically happen in an entry-level job - gotta work up to it), only then should you consider pursuing SQL certifications.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  10. harpistic

    harpistic Byte Poster

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    DBA work is about database maintenance, tuning and administration - hardware skills (A+) and desktop support (MCDST) really don't help you too much here unless you have progressed through the support route. Not only does it put a lot more money into the training centre's bank account, it also delays your progress significantly. Some networking knowledge is useful, however you get to learn that from a database perspective, not from a network support perspective.

    I've dug up some job ads from this week so you can see the typical skillsets required:

    Senior Database Administrator - SQL


    Demonstrable knowledge and working experience of Microsoft SQL Server 2000, 2005, Access and Excel

    Proven experience within a 24 hour software/application support environment.

    Proven experience providing Database Support, Development and Migration

    Proven experience in a support role in a medium (500+ seats) enterprise

    Proven skills in Database technologies and data manipulation.

    Proven technical skills in some or all of the following; SQL, VBA, ASP.Net, C#, MS Access, Biztalk, MS Reporting services & SharePoint, XML and Web Services.

    Demonstrable knowledge and working experience of the following:

    DTS (SQL 2000 / 2005), SSIS, Reporting Services, Replication, SQL clustering

    SQL Log-shipping, Oracle (9i) (desirable)


    SQL Server Production/Development DBA

    Minimum of 12 months experience as a Microsoft SQL Server DBA/Developer
    Minimum of 6 months experience of MySql
    Strong knowledge of data integration and migration tools
    Excellent core SQL skills; including coding of stored procedures and triggers.
    Knowledge of database performance monitoring and tuning concepts
    SQL Reporting Services


    SQL Server DBA

    I have interview slots for this afternoon with one of my key clients who is urgently looking for an experienced DBA who also has worked in large-scale Windows and UNIX environments before. You must also have excellent communication skills as you will be working on client sites.

    If you have strong SQL Server experience working mainly with backups and performance tuning issues and can interview / start work asap please give me a call asap
     
    Certifications: Pet Geekery
    WIP: cure for insomnia
  11. harpistic

    harpistic Byte Poster

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    (I'll go away after this post!) :oops:

    If he wants to get into database work and become a DBA, then it would be better for him to get entry-level work with databases and then progress from there; he will be gaining the relevant skills he needs with the right technology. There may not be entry-level DBA jobs out there, but there are still entry-level database jobs and SQL Server jobs out there which would get him a foot in the right door :dry
     
    Certifications: Pet Geekery
    WIP: cure for insomnia
  12. GiddyG

    GiddyG Terabyte Poster Gold Member

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    Welcome to CF! 8)
     
  13. sunn

    sunn Gigabyte Poster

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    Welcome aboard...
    ...and get ready for the advice. :)

    You'll want to start with an entry-level job. You're going to need some experience before getting hands on a production DB.
     
  14. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    That'd be great... but I have yet to see an entry-level database or entry-level SQL Server job in my years in IT. Entry-level techs don't typically work on servers... they just don't. Companies either hire experienced techs to do that work, or when their entry-level techs gain experience, THEN they let them loose on a server or two.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  15. Nightburner

    Nightburner New Member

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    cheers guys - i will be looking at the sql stuff tonight - my IT knowledge is all self taught but not enough to get myself a job (unable to find one to get my foot on the ladder) - if i download the SQL package and get myself books from Amazon what proff do i haver to an employer that i can do what they ask? I won't have anything on paper if you know what i mean?
     
  16. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    A lot of small and medium size companies provide access to smaller less critical systems and require cheaper staff, they are your best chance of a break. Its not uncommon for systems to be cobbled together in Access and SQL Server, these jobs won't be marketed as DBA jobs and they won't be for large multinationals.

    They will typically be marketed as junior dev jobs or all round support positions, so it is possible, but bear in mind again that theres many people from support, college, university etc, are also going to apply, so if you have no knowledge of IT you can probably forget it.

    IT is a dynamic industry for self starters, you have to be 100% percent committed and put the work in. Thats why people here advocate self study and getting experience. Training providers really can't give you the in depth knowledge and experience they promise in the short time they provide, you need this knowledge if you are new to IT. They also won't prove that you can learn on your own under pressure, or that you are committed. Self study + experience and certs goes a long way to demonstrating those key assets, you will still then have to prove other capabilities on your CV, in the interview and on the Job.

    I still think a degree or diploma is a good course to get into IT and also hopefully shows the above traits, failing this theres apprenticeships, then theres entry level job + self study which is a kind of do it yourself apprenticeship.

    None of these requires an unapproved training provider which asks for top rates for minimal training. There are no short cuts, IT is a professional profession like any other, it takes years of dedication, just like it would to become an accountant, doctor, pilot, etc...

    What experience do you have ? Have you learnt SQL and Normalisation? How do you know you want to be a DBA ? Have you looked at introductory college courses in your area with database modules ?
     
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  17. harpistic

    harpistic Byte Poster

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    In England there are, and have been for the last few years :dry - remember, we're talking databases here, not servers! A lot of data analyst jobs are asking for basic SQL Server skills, it's a foot in the door and an opportunity to get familarised with SQL Server.
     
    Certifications: Pet Geekery
    WIP: cure for insomnia
  18. wizard

    wizard Petabyte Poster

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    Hi there and welcome 8)

    How long ago did you sign up for the advent course?

    If it is less then 14 days ago, I'd ask for your money back and go the self study route.
     
    Certifications: SIA DS Licence
    WIP: A+ 2009
  19. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Will have to take your word on that. :)
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  20. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Its true theres various data munging and EDI duties that get done, sometimes people just want ballpark estimates and ad hoc reports etc... They might want data cleaned before it goes into a marketing datamart etc, 100% correct data is not always to goal, sometimes they just want a feel...
     
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH

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